Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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17/06/2013 at 06:02

Blisters - don't think we're allowed to talk multisports lest it gets in the way of the talk of days out at the EDL protests, this week on Question Time or being nominated for Star of the Week at school. Which only seems fair.

As you were.

17/06/2013 at 08:03

jonny -- that's a huge PB, very well done. Sorry it wasn't tops for you AD.

ST -- ouch, really hope it's not too serious.

TR -- I was being greedy; I wanted to exploit my VLM fitness to bag some fast shorter races, and keep the endurance up for BGR adventures in August. Lev_ -- sorry to hear you're in the same boat with your glute.

Pi Man -- congrats on the PB

Wardi -- are you just starting the 10Ks too fast? My best race performances have been those where I kept it reined in for the first half for slight negative splits. Nice 5K though!

Blisters -- I had no idea you were a triathlete -- sounds like you upheld honour admirably.

Clearly -- 20K races are great for a high PowerOf10 UK ranking (if you can find the category)...

Still resting; if the leg is still cranky by Weds, I'll call my GP. Has to be said it feels better this morning though.

17/06/2013 at 08:13

No internet for the past few days due to the house move, so just skimmed back. Well done to Pi Man (~40s PB over 10k is a fair chunk, so don't worry about not going sub-37) and jonny on a nice HM. TT - impressive mileage, but be careful!

Moved house on Friday but managed to get a swim and short run done before anything started (i.e. by 7am). Then 12M steady on Saturday and 50M easy on the bike yesterday. All ready to go now, but got to get through a few days at work first!

House move went OK, and really pleased with the new place. Lots of work needed, but a lot of it will (hopefully!) be done while we're away in France.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
17/06/2013 at 09:32

Nice HIM blisters.  I've had a few tris like that, where you think you're a bike god because nobody passes you.  Then I do a duathlon and find out I'm very average...

Mixed weekend for me: quickest parkrun for a year & a decent bike saturday, yesterday an early swim and 13 miles largely off road in the afternoon which started OK but finished doubled up with stomach cramps.  Too big a lunch, probably.

Saw The Who saturday night too, and junior did a triathlon ata his school sunday morning, so on balance a good few days.

17/06/2013 at 10:30

Morning All,

Excellent race report Blisters, short and to the point! Think you had fun by the sounds of things.... Good to see your sub-20 5k streak is continuing Wardi, I use mile rep sessions to improve 10k fitness, 6x1M @10k pace, working up to (ideally) 3x2M over a periods of weeks, but that's flipping hard normally manage 1/2/2/1M or the like. Thanks for the Orthotics advice Clearly, the physio I saw pointed me in the direction of a recommended sports podiatrist for custom ones, so I know the right person to go to. Well done on the weekend's running, very happy to hear things are going well for you. Congratulations to Pi Man for the 10k PB, that's some rapid progression in times. Also congrats to Jonny for a cracking HM PB (sub 75 next?), but commiserations to Andy D, at least you have a good idea of what shape you are in now ro work from. Thanks for the orthotics info Jools, part of my worry with orthotics is that the podiatist will end up making me something with too much stability control, as my left foot pronates massively. CW, I think you and I are guilty of the same thing, not knowing when to stop... if you need exercise that's non-weight bearing to maintain fitness there's always water-running, yes it looks weird but I doubt that would bother someone with eclectic training techniques such as you. Excellent running TR, humming along nicely inspite of your hectic home schedule!

HR - "It's only because I ran through a shitty shin for a while and nearly SF'd it" I'm not spooked, but it's comments like that that make me really want to get to the bottom of my shin problem

TT - I tried popping a flat footbed in my left shoe for my run yesterday (19M@6:50ish) and the shin is only a little sore today. It was only 2mm thick or so (my LLD seems to be 3-5mm ish). An interesting thought, last Thursday morning I did an easy 6M where I focused on applying the form technique I was taught by the Running School back in Jan, by the afternoon my shin was very sore (far more than after yesterday's long run). I'm not drawing any conclusions yet, but it was around the begining of the year that I started to notice my sore shin.... . Amazing mileage btw!

RS - Thanks for the physio advice, I am very keen to explore the alignment and L/R side strength imbalance approach first before looking at orthotics. I know my pelvis slips out of alignment over time and my left leg is a bit shorter, but what comes first? As I'm not convinced it's a structural LLD issue. The phyiso I saw last week was very lower leg foot specialist and didn't really take much else into account IMO. So I'm seeking another opinion and going to see the physio to the stars (well Marigold and Liz Yelling ), Tim Cruse-Drew in Bournemouth next week to see what he has to say.


17/06/2013 at 10:40


19M off-road for me on Sunday, 5M by myself, 12M with the club and then 2M back to the car. Club run turned out to just be me and one other fast guy, who goes too fast (doesn't run much the rest of the week), so spent the majority of the 12 trying to get him to rein it in a bit, splits were 7:10/6:52/6:42/7:20/6:46/6:53/7:00/7:02/6:22/6:24/6:16/6:22/6:19/6:30/7:02/7:13/6:57/7:38/7:28. R glute was getting a bit twitched at the end so backed off, feels fine today thankfully. Spent the rest of the day feeling totally knackered though and having a rest today with gym core/stretching session first thing.

17/06/2013 at 11:51
jonny wrote (see)

...  Freckleton Half ... finish for 6th place in an 'official' 76.14. I say 'official' because my watch and the car clock both suggested 76.35.

Jonny at first I thought that was a great pb, smashing through the 80 minute barrier - then one careless slip and you give the game away

Al_P that's an impressive run, no wonder you're knackered.

Sorry to read of all the benching going on at the moment, I've had more than my fair share of it in the past and it's not nice. A big reason for my pb run is that I haven't been fully benched since the autumn. I hope all recoveries are sensibly managed because I know to my cost that the temptation to get into the full swing of things can be too great to resist.

Edited: 17/06/2013 at 11:53
17/06/2013 at 14:42

TT - Big mileage, any races planned?

TR - Crikey another long'un,.

Al_P - My right leg is shorter than my left due to pelvic alignment problems, I see a chiropractor every 3 months just to check me and re-align if needed.  Hell of a run as well.

Pi Man - Another PB!!!!

CW - Bonkers as usual, take it easy or you may spend a lot longer on the bench than needed. 

Blisters - Nice Half IM, sounds like a good work out.

85 miles last week with 3 decent runs in there that's my best week since VLM, thankfully as I have a couple of races at the end of the month.

17/06/2013 at 16:19

OT - I'd have thought that's too quickly, but if you're IM training then maybe it's different, but 40-50m in that range does seem like a lot I think.

RS - sounds promising. Fingers crossed.

jonny - cheers. Back rather than hip. The extra mileage seems to be ridding the last few tight spots. Impressive HM improvement!

Blisters - sounds like you had a fun and plenty of room for improvement.

Clearly - I'm delighted to see continued improvement  You really deserve a long, long trouble free time just for your perseverance only!

Padams - good news on the house move. Don't worry. I'm watching carefully for any negative signs. Not sure when you're off, so best of luck for Sunday!

Al_P - nice long run and good news that the insert seems to have helped. That seems (from a non-professional, only over the net, from the info you've given ) to me like a better idea than the orthotics.

SL - Amsterdam (but I'm going to do Maidenhead HM and New Forest Mara - both September - as warm-ups). What races are you doing?

As it's Monday, that means it's long run day, so 24m easy today. I've got another 4 weeks of base after this one, before a week 'off' (we're on holiday so I'm only going to do 3 short runs across that week), and I'm hoping to have a few over distance runs in the next 4 all going well.

17/06/2013 at 19:55

TT - Cheers mate, I'm literally a total novice to running and any kind of serious training, so all Top Tips (see what I did there?) are appreciated! Thanks again.

18/06/2013 at 04:52

PiMan well done and stil a good one

ST Looks like you're doing the right thing now by backing straight off.

OT - you could be right. Sensible to back off.

Wardi - nice one and well done on the charity work

Andy D - another day. Like the sound of the beer!

BMacG - Nice 21k

Jonny - that's a stormer. Well done you: superb time, effort, position

Blisters - nice one

Clearly - good effort in the context of the play within the play. Those races within larger sessions are top training.

CD - well done on the parkrun

Padams - sounds great and good luck settling in, plus build up to the big one.  

Al_P - excellent on the 19m. And for CW One of the things which finally stopped me was the hop test that some on here recommended i.e. can you hop on that leg? I went for X-Ray (useless) and MRI which showed bone bruising and a 'raised signal'. That's one stop short of stress fracture so was lucky.

SL - big miles, well done

TT - huge miles

TR lol none taken at all. You're right really. I don't think I realised how tiring this final stage of the editing would be. Putting in 12-16 hour days, focused on the screen, edge of seat. It's surprisingly tiriing. Anyway, took a rest Sunday after nearly 2 weeks without one, and did an easy yesterday. I'm on my final week so I've got to cut back the running anyway. Will take stock next week and prob come back raring to go, so it may be just what was needed.


Edited: 18/06/2013 at 04:55
18/06/2013 at 12:12

HR -- probably mystified several people in my office now by hopping on dodgy leg! Actually I remembered your tip and tried it earlier too. I can hop on it, and in general it's felt much better yesterday and today -- I'd not know I'd had a big problem with it from how it feels now. Intriguingly I was getting some little twitches in the tib. a. muscle on that side in bed now and then, which may be irrelevant, but could be a pointer to a compartment syndrome (one of my other pet theories for this one). I'll leave it another day and then maybe try 1 mile tomorrow in high-cadence mode again to see what happens. I won't be going to my GP with it feeling like it is today, but then I've been there before -- 2 weeks after VLM I had about 5 days off only for it to clear up about 12 hours before my rural marathon. Hope your writing stint finishes up nicely BTW.

TT -- hardly worth commenting on your 24 when an average day is 19!

18/06/2013 at 12:24

Afternoon all. I have been lurking as life has been busy, but hopefully coming out of the other side of that now, at least temporarily!  Managing about 60 mpw and P&D starts next week - how quickly the 2 months post-VLM has flown...

18/06/2013 at 14:14

Jools/SL.. good to see you both getting back to it.

Jonny.. congrats on your Freckleton PB, nice run from Andy D too even if a bit off target.

Clearly.. really pleased to see you getting some miles & races in, must feel good! 

Blisters.. cheers mate, & well battled in the half IM.

CD.. well done on your quickest Parkrun for a while.

Padams.. glad the house move went well.  When we last moved the previous owners were more or less ready to go but were still emptying the dishwasher!  In addition to that they only moved about 300 yards away and for the first 2 weeks their cat kept coming back!

Charlie.. I'm known as Mr Metronome around here so I rarely start races too fast.  At the moment I seem to be starting at the pace I think I ought to be able to sustain based on my 5k times but can't!

Thanks for all the advice re. my relatively poor 10k's.  TT.. interesting you mention MP runs, I must confess I don't tend to do them outside marathon training.  However you did jog my memory as I remember LS21 saying that those sort of runs imroved his times at all distances, must give them a try.  Congrats on getting 24m in the bank!

Al P.. I was doing those sort of 10k intervals a go in the winter so will resume them.  I did them on the treadie then so it might be a bit sweaty in this weather!  Cracking run on Sunday BTW. 

4.2m early this sunny morning, about 7 with the club later.


18/06/2013 at 14:45

Wardi - luckily the house we moved into had been empty for about 3 months (although it meant the lawn was like a jungle...) and the people buying ours are not moving in (renting it out). So relatively straightforward.

Quiet on here today. I'm basically counting down the hours to going away now but still got a bit of work to do. Wrote a brief summary of the year's training and targets for the race on my blog if anyone's a bit bored.

Won't be online now until the end of next week I expect, but will try to pop in to post the result at some point.

18/06/2013 at 15:13

Nice targets Padams. Best of luck!

lol OT. The likes of Padams would give you a better indication of what pace you should be doing your running at if you're combining it with IM training. I'm pure running, so, as I said, you may find what you're doing is right all things combined.......

Wardi - I'm a big believer in working above and below a target distance/pace/effort level to get the best benefits. E.g. I rarely run MP even though my training is all directed towards the marathon. During base I tend to work a bit slower than it for longer tempos, and then fartleks a bit quicker than it. During the specific phase I tend to narrow in on it a bit more, but still training primarily with those longer tempos and long reps around HM-ish (can be closer to MP if (i.e. when) tired). I would expect the same thing to work quite well for 10k. Obviously take into account 'horses for courses', 'experiment of one', etc.......

HR - I'm sure once you feel fresher it'll all be much more enjoyable.

18/06/2013 at 16:04

8 yesterday and 10ish today still keeping to the lower HR. Tum Te Tum

18/06/2013 at 17:29

Haven't read back, but good luck to Padams this weekend - the training deserves a standout performance.  Don't let us down 

18/06/2013 at 22:00

Good Luck Padams! Are you sure about that run target? Perhaps you should look at the name of this thread for inspiration 

18/06/2013 at 22:57

Wardi - over tapering for the 10ks IMO !

Padams - all the best, hope you smoke it !

CW - I make it that you are less than a week into the month that you said you could have taken, keep the trainers in the cupboard please, 3 weeks more to go !

U13s scores were tied, but we went through as we lost less wickets. County final next Monday.

Bike and Swim for me training wise today.

Edited: 18/06/2013 at 22:57
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