Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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06/09/2013 at 12:16

TR -- aww, I really want you to do Abo to find out just how far down the 2:4x range you get. Up to you though, I agree you're going to surprise us all when you really race on a fast course, whatever the distance.

SL -- I've visited Bury St Eds a couple of times in recent years but have never done any running there, sorry. I favour (which redirects to Bing) to look at the Ordnance Survey mapping though. Actually I did the annoying-distance Bury Nearly 10 (9.4M race) back in 2008 or something, but I can't remember much about it now.

selbs -- welcome back, and glad you're kind of running, though sorry you've been through such a tough time on that score.

jools -- a 20M run for one of your calibre must be like a normal mortal doing 10K or something, but I'm sure you'll ignore your physio to the appropriate degree anyway

Nice training TT, hope the half goes well. You too HR.

I'm in the same boat of trying to regain speed after hills, HH. I jogged the 2M over to my club for the 5k mob match yesterday, with legs already a bit stiff from a big session on Tuesday. So I started well back from the start, and headed out at 6:15/M. But that felt a bit *too* easy after a bit, so I got gradually faster (all a bit surreal doing a non-race like this), overtaking all the time of course, finishing at more like 5:30/M and averaging 6:00/M overall in 18:39. So that's basically MP in a 5k race! Good to catch up with people, though, and  it should have left my legs fine for my low-key half on Sunday.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
06/09/2013 at 12:56

Just popping in to commiserate with padams - reading through I was hoping for more evidence that endurance athletes show abnormal but harmless ECG traces, but no joy.  Good to read it's getting sorted  - you'll have a good day in Kona whatever happens.

I'm fine TR, thanks for asking.  Just over another 5 weeks of inactivity until I see the consultant.  In the meantime it's amazing what you find to do when you don't have to train.  Last weekend junior & I tried some stop motion animation with his lego and an ipad.  All the work that went into those 5 minute morph sections on Take Hart years ago and now 'there's an app for that' and off you go.  Not that we'll be rivalling Nick Park just yet.

Tomorrow we'll be parkrunning, I'm scanning barcodes while he winds up the old folk by sprinting past them to the finish.  Chip off the old block.

06/09/2013 at 13:05

selbs - 44 mins given what you've been through sounds pretty good to me. And anyway, as long as you're enjoying it that's all that matters really. Thanks for asking - feeling fine now and nearly all the swelling has gone from the (probable) area that caused it.

Still got another 6 days of antibiotics. They didn't say anything about not exercising whilst on antibiotics, so will probably try something very easy on Sunday and see how I feel. Turbo might be best so I can easily bail out.

Jools - sounds reasonably promising, be careful though!

TT - very impressive pace (5:35s).

CW - nice controlled 5k, perfect before the HM.

06/09/2013 at 13:25

CD - that sucks, the amount of time training you normally do, you must have loads of spare to fill up!  Great u can still enjoy a parkrun with the youngster, even if it's on the admin side... best of luck getting a full diagnosis with the consultant, and being able to crack back into things.  i suppose you have done some dr googling on it all... (and it isn't really to be recommended i know, my wife had a lymphoma scare after having a lump removed back in March/April..and google was our enemy back then).  anyway... i digress... but i did see this:

A subset of athletes (5% of the 1005) showed particularly abnormal or bizarre ECG patterns, but no evidence of structural cardiovascular abnormalities or an increase in cardiac dimensions.                     

Conclusions—Most athletes (60%) in this large cohort had ECGs that were completely normal or showed only minor alterations. A variety of abnormal ECG patterns occurred in 40%; this was usually indicative of physiological cardiac remodeling. A small but important subgroup of athletes without cardiac morphological changes showed striking ECG abnormalities that suggested cardiovascular disease; however, these changes were likely an innocent consequence of long-term, intense athletic training and, therefore, another component of athlete heart syndrome. Such false-positive ECGs represent a potential limitation to routine ECG testing as part of preparticipation screening.                    

Padams - yeah can't see why you wouldn't be able to ease back into things even whilst finishing the antibiotics, good news.

06/09/2013 at 13:43

CW - good combo of steady running and a bit of speed the other day, well controlled pacing wise in the 5k.

Dachs - any news on the shin? Is Maidenhead a go/nogo?

Jools - Glad to hear the bench time was short-lived, don't endanger your chances of good run at Frankfurt with a hastly return though!

Wardi - Hope you manage to flush the bug out soon.

Padams - Nasty sounding experience, hope it's cleared up

Dan - Great UTMB race report and well done, I can envisage running for 12-14 hours, but 24+ like you and CW have done recently I find mind boggling... Not that I might try one day....

TR - Great pace for your 10 in 13 and a excellent mile reps off only 30secs jog. Got my entries for Solent (pre-Frankfurt MP effort) and Gosport (post-Frankfurt just-see-how-slow_I am-effort) in today 

Lev - I'd agree that 3 weeks is a bit close for a flat out HM effort pre marathon A race, do-able but only if you're confident that you would have recovered in time. Great pace for 4x18 session intervals.

Sweedo - Congrats on the sub-3 and marathon podium on a tough course.

TT- good to hear you might have a solution for your asthma issues and nice double, it was pretty hot yesterday. I should fairly obvious in a white/green New Forest Runners vest on Sunday, probably be wearing my white shades with black lenses too if the sun comes out...

HR - Impressive by your island training, 12/13M in 33C, ouch!

Selbs - Nice to see you pop in and getting back on track slowly

Just tapering down here in prep from sunday's HM, which for me means short runs with strides and decreasing quantities of 400m reps. Had a crack at a fast mile on Weds, but only managed just over 5:00 due to a poor quality grass track, hot weather and not enough warm up (mostly the latter)! Did a mini double yesterday with 5.5M (5x20" strides at the end) first thing and 6.25 in the evening inc 6x400m. Just a warm up/4x400m/cool down to do this afternoon and then that's it before Sunday.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
06/09/2013 at 13:58

You're right selbs, I might be in that 'important subgroup', although athlete heart syndrome doesn't cause blackouts.  That's why I'm detraining right now - if it's athlete heart syndrome the ECG will go back to normal, and then hopefully they'll put the blackout down to a one-off event.

padams - turbo sounds a good plan in the circumstances, a couple of hours easy pedalling (by your standards) in front of the TV and you'll feel much better.

06/09/2013 at 15:59

Fair enough HR

Nice low key 5km CW.

Padams - I remember getting tired a lot easier whilst on a course of antibiotics before. Just something for you to bear in mind.

Al_P - I'm looking forward to seeing what you do on Sunday; you're in very good shape. I know the vest so I shall keep my eyes peeled.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
06/09/2013 at 17:04

TT, do you think that was down to the antibiotics themselves, or down to whatever it was you were taking them for?

06/09/2013 at 17:06

Al_P - physio last night confirmed what I expected, i.e. inflamed tibialis anterior.  It is exactly the same tendon in exactly the same leg as I injured post-Berlin last year, just a bit higher up.  Possibly aggravated by suddenly facing big uphills/downhills when running on holiday.  He told me a bunch of reasons why I was running wrong - I kind of glazed over, but the summary seems to be:

  • Foot doesn't flatten properly when it hits the ground, meaning less impact is absorbed
  • Not enough flexibility in foot/ankle
  • Not enough flexibility in hips

So I got a bunch of exercises to do.  He says I can continue to run short distances, and it does seem to be on the mend.  However, running Maidenhead seems silly.  I had hoped for a confidence-boosting PB ahead of the marathon, but it seems unlikely in any case given the last couple of weeks, and all that would happen is I would put Abo at risk.

Not 100% decided yet, but seems very unlikely I'll run.  Then hopefully I can resume training properly next week, otherwise it calls Abo into question too.

Shame, I was looking forward to a good old ding-dong with you and TT, we could have pushed each other to some decent times.  I'm certain you'll both pull out some great times.

Good to see selbs back to it, and puts my moaning into perspective.

Edited: 06/09/2013 at 17:10
06/09/2013 at 18:14

Good luck in the half Al_P, sounds like you're doing a nice taper.

Glad you're finding some good with the spare time CD, and hope that it proves to be a false postive too.

Sorry about the shin Dachs, but I'm curious -- what exercises did your physio recommend? My left tib. a. is a bit dodgy still. I try and strengthen it my flapping my feet up and down while standing, and by walking along on my heels, and stretch it by kneeling on my legs with my feet out flat behind me on the bed -- part of my standard routine. Got any others?

06/09/2013 at 18:29

Selbs - nice to see things on the up a bit for you, hope the trend continues. You did 8x6:07 with zero rest, I had a rest every mile !

Padams - nice to see you feeling better, you still have about 5 weeks to get your powers back up.

Jools - 2M loops and keep going, just make sure that you stop (and walk home) if it gets tight. Thats my post calf plan anyway.

CD - good to see you keeping busy. I always fancied getting some of that Lego that you can program, but then its a bit of a busmans holiday.

Al_P - I guess you'll have a better idea of Frankfurt MP after Sunday, but I'm guessing it'll be quicker than I could do at the Solent 1/2. We'll see, I might attach my elastic to you.

HH - nice one on the NF running, I'll be there with a number on in 2 weeks.

CW - write the alphabet with your feet whilst you are seated at your desk.

60min Turbo (only done the odd turbo all summer) and 2K swim today. need to get a bit of swim and bike sharpness going, Turbo is the best place for bike sharpening.

Edited: 06/09/2013 at 18:30
06/09/2013 at 20:08

8M - no pain during or after, so fingers crossed I'm good for double figures on Sunday.  Will continue stretching in front of the athletics.

06/09/2013 at 21:45

More good news Jools, bet you're looking forward to 10m+!

CD.. must seem a long time out for you but best of luck to junior tomorrow.

Good to see Padams on the mend.

Dachs.. sorry to hear you're on the bench, sensible decision over Maidenhead though.

Selbs.. must be such a joy being able to run again.  Don't worry about the pace for now, just keep doing what feels comfortable.

HH.. you should have a decent base when you start the faster stuff, some nice big weeks you're putting in.

Charlie.. nicely accelerated 5k!  Best of luck in the half.  Good luck to TT & Al P at Maidenhead as well.

SL.. 17m before breakfast is deserving of extra sugar puffs!  Nice interval session the night before too.

6m up the riverbank trail tonight, came across a dozen or so cows blocking a narrow section so helped a couple of stranded cyclists to shift them by being noisy.  Think I'll have a blast round the Parkrun tomorrow.


06/09/2013 at 22:01

CD - a side effect of antibiotics is that they wipe out good bacteria as well as the bad ones, so the body tends to take a bit of a hit as it tries to re-establish them (plus it's more susceptible to other stuff at the same time).

TR - NF in 2 weeks, is that the HM or the 1/2 IM?

Good news Jools

Cheers Wardi.

06/09/2013 at 22:05

CW - some basic calf stretches and circling the feet.  In addition to that there's one where you stand in the basic calf stretch position with the front leg bent and back leg straight - then put the weight of your body forwards whilst bending your front knee forwards and inwards at the same time.  That one feels a bit weird.  The others he gave me are hip stretches.

06/09/2013 at 22:17

TT - 1/2 IM, i'll be in teh North where HH was, you'll be in the South. Ode was in teh South last yr doing teh mara on teh same day, it pissed it down and blew a hooly, they were dragging folks of the tri course with hypothermia ! Racing on teh same day as me carries bad weather risks !

06/09/2013 at 22:22

Took a wrong turn under the new regime and arrived at work bang on 10 miles. Was trying to take things easy but 7:30 was a real laboured pace. However, clocked 1:14:49 so job done and the legs started to improve as the day went on at work. Rest day at work tomorrow.

06/09/2013 at 23:27

Lev - Legs endurance not leg speed. That's my experience, I know of others who have had it and it fits with your recent return to running but it still could be something different for you.  I haven't been keeping that close an eye on what your training is and can't remember how long you were out injured but if your base is lacking you'll probably get a bigger bang for you buck focusing on that than doing the marathon specific sessions.  Lower injury risk too. 

Selbs - Good to hear from you again.  Hope you can make it back again.

Jools - Good news!

Dachs/CW - Tibialis anterior was what kept me out for 20 months.  It in istelf wasn't the problem though.  It was mostly a glutes problem.  Still not fully resolved but enough that I can run.  If I understand it correctly the TA isn't that strong and if you're having problems with it it's likely that something else isn't working and taking it's share of the strain.

Al_P - Good luck on Sunday.  I'll be watching out for your time.

TT - Sounds like good news on the asthma front.  Hope it keeps that way.  I'm interested to see how you get on at Maidenhead too.  I briefly considered joining in as I was thinking of moving my 18 w/10 @m-pace forward a week because I have a 5 mile race I've committed to doing next week but 2 hours driving each way is more than I can justify. 

Padams - Sound a bit dramatic!  Hope the recovery continues.

A small hiccup in training.  I can't quite work out if it's ITB related but there's a trapped nerve somewhere which is causing me to lose power in my left leg.  I was able to 'run it off' on Wednesday's 14 miler but it was pretty bad trying to  walk the day after and I had to concede defeat after about 3 today.  I'll take another day off and see how I go on Sunday. 

07/09/2013 at 09:13

Dachs - good to get a diagnosis and have a plan.

Interesting to hear about training whilst on antibiotics - someone else told me I would feel very tired too. I feel perfectly well at the moment and the ankle is no longer swollen other than a small lump on the top of the tendon. But will probably give it another day off just in case.

07/09/2013 at 12:14

Padams - its good that you feel well though.

Clearly - hope its not a major issue

Legs were a bit achey still from the mile reps on Thurs, so I put another 20M on them this morning to hit them when they were down. Did some Pete Jacobs stylie strides in the 19th mile too, just to shock the legs a bit more. 

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