Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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Cheerful Dave    pirate
28/09/2013 at 18:02

Selbs - I'm doing fine, thanks for asking.  Still 2 weeks to go until I repeat the ECGs etc in my untrained state.  Not going quite as stir crazy as I thought I would - I obviously needed a break! 

28/09/2013 at 18:03

Selbs, that sounds awful - I really hope it clears up soon.  Good luck to all with races/big runs tomorrow. 

A gentle few miles earlier.  The hip flexor is still not quite right but I'm going to trust that the marathon gods look favourably upon me and that it doesn't seize up half way round.  There's really no point dwelling on it and I'm really looking forward to the race.  Thanks again to you all in advance for the support and advice over the last couple of months - and in fact since I first showed my face on here before Berlin a couple of years ago.  Business time...    

28/09/2013 at 18:23

Selbs - oh what a pisser, just when you were getting going again, thats a bit shitty ! Hope the injection helps.

CW - agreed on long unfuelled runs teaching the body to burn fat, and agreed that your 26Milers weren't burning race day glycogen, didnt mean that they were, I was meaning more that they are destructive on the body during the training period (but thats another debate anyway). You wont be burning glycogen in a 2M jog (especailly if you are right and I'm wrong about youir 26milers), but regardless of that, the point of it is to then get the body to suck up the porridge that you then give it when you finish the jog. So topping up energy levels even further.

CD - hope the 2 weeks passes quickly.

Lev - give it some ! once you get past 1/2 way everything else will start hurting enough for you to forget about any hip pain !

Had a little trip up to see JH1 today, he's bought himself a swish new TT bike, so we struck a deal last week for me to make sure that his old one keeps on racing. Just need to save up for some wheels for it now.

Edited: 28/09/2013 at 18:25
28/09/2013 at 21:42

good luck again Lev!

nice little exchange plan that TR good one.

nice to hear u are coping OK then CD.

welcome MD - if u ran an 83 half and think you are in just as good or better shape now, then i'd reckon you can set off at 7 min miles and surely not blow up too much.  risk is have u done enough long runs/got the endurance, but come on, you might never be this fit again (look at some of us on the bench now!), might as well give it a proper bash i reckon.  Start at 7's and see how it feels, be willing to adjust as you go though. good luck.

Edited: 28/09/2013 at 21:43
28/09/2013 at 22:39

MD: An 83 HM should be enough to get you a sub 3 but have you done enough long runs? Setting off at 7s won't get you sub 3 unless you can run a negative split which is unlikely. I think to go sub 3 you need to go off at 6.45m/m to allow for the inevitable fade; especially for your first marathon. If  you're not sure and you want to 'enjoy' the day, bag a good for age and make a plan for your next one.

selbs: you don't get much luck do you...fingers crossed.

TR: so are you definitely binning Abo?

Dids: Bad luck but it'll be all forgotten and all will be Boss-for-us when you bag your 2:35 in Istanbul.


29/09/2013 at 09:24

Anyone else following Scott Overall at Berlin? Looks like he's gone off too fast to me.... 15k done.

29/09/2013 at 09:42

Looks like he's attempting the slowest ever 5k in history now. The leaders are at 38k (on for a world record) and he's not made it to the 20k mark. 

Here we go again!


29/09/2013 at 09:48

Ah but will his finish LD?

Having rested the ankle for a few days I went for my LSR with the options of cutting off if necessary. With rested legsthings went very smoothly so I opted to repeat last weeks LSR with mp miles. I was able to hold on to the pace for the full 11 miles. So job done and now for taper time.

Splits 6:26, 6:33, 6:24, 6:23, 6:21, 6:23, 6:23, 6:21, 6:23, 6:30, 6:25

29/09/2013 at 09:51

Thanks Selbs and Mr Boat - I have decided that I am going to go with the 3 hour pacemaker. If I feel it is going to be too fast I will moderate my speed after 10k or so. I hope I don't regret it!

29/09/2013 at 09:52

Wow - A 2:03:23 world record. Knocked 15 secs off the previous best. 

meanwhile..... Where exactly is Overall?




29/09/2013 at 10:13

Good to see LD back and I like the sound of the Istanbul plan. Hope you recover quickly from the abductor issue. Will try and track Mr O from Kuala Lumpur central station where I'm awaiting a sleeper train to Penang.

Mr B: fair comment haha! Perhaps something between that and the P&D then?!

Lev_ fingers are massively crossed on the hip flexor. That really is the pits so here's hoping all is now ok.

Selbs that sounds awful. Wishing you all best. Back pain is grim, and that sounds horrendous if you can't sleep at night. How about swimming? Still reckon the golf can't be good for it, no? Don't take offence, just I used to play a bit and it's such a twisting motion?

Postie postie excellent run from you by sounds of it: well done, and great you're right back after the incident.

Middle distance, your HM time is pretty decent. The danger will be having enough in the tank later because of insufficient long runs so my advice is do NOT go off too fast. Better to do a negative split (second half faster than first). Actually just read what CW posted, and Mr Boat. Precisely. And if you're 41 I would set out for 3h15 and see how you feel at half way and then, as Charlie says, at 20m to see if you can push on then. If you have it in the tank you can kick from there and you'll be belting past people who went off too fast. Edit: just seen your plan. Well, end of the day this event is about going for it so love your style and massive good luck. Go storm it, and report back ok?

CW - do you think a 5 to 10 mins super slow jog can make that much difference to glycogen if you do it before breakfast? The idea is that it just kicks the metabolism into gear and then you eat something. So I'm with TR on that. I did this in 2011 and pb'd by 20 mins. Mind you I did feel shit On the other hand I totally agree with you about taper week: that's my plan i.e. a real cut back but some sharp stuff.

21m bagged for me. Last of the 21m's. That's 8 in the last 9 weeks and 14 since May.

Nothing flash today as it was sweltering later on under a burning sun. No blood thank goodness. In retrospect I think I burnt quite a few matches last week. Had an amusing first mile though as I found myself running alongside the elites of the Standard Chartered Kuala Lumpur marathon. Had no idea it was on today. No-one told me to get off the course but I peeled away after a mile. I did give the drinks a miss but used the portaloo.

Edited: 29/09/2013 at 10:38
29/09/2013 at 10:52

Well done on bagging the last long runs HR and Postie

MrB - yes Abo binned last Sunday, LT 30M in the 2 weeks before last Sunday and only 5 in the week following. Solent 1/2, Lordshill 10 and Gosport 1/2 instead. The main thing to focus on is not letting my running tail off too much by the New Year.

back in the trainers for 15M today, last few were on tired legs.

29/09/2013 at 10:58

TR -- I know what you mean about exercising the muscles to encourage more take-up (the Aussie carb load takes that to the extreme), but I think it's too late to do that on race day. And jogging will use up some carbs! (HR -- 5 or 10 min super-slow is more like half or one mile, and very slow does use a lower proportion of carbohydrate. So that would be less worrying than 2 miles, but I'd still just rest on the morning myself.)

middle distance -- I'd hate to have talked you out of a first-time sub-3 triumph if you're on for one. It really is very hard to know. It's the open loop nature of marathon pacing that makes it such a good game -- you only know if you've got it right when it's too late! Problem is, it always feels dangerously easy early on... so you won't know anything at all after 10k. At that point you'll be lulled into thinking it's a doddle anyway, even if the storm clouds are brewing. Hope it works out well, whatever you do. You never said how comfy your 20M run was -- unless the answer is "very", I think 3 hours will be risky. But hey, this is a game where we're allowed to take some chances.

Nice run postie, good confidence boost to be able to hold a chunk of MP in a longer run.

I've just nailed a pleasing session; the back of my thigh was still noticeable, but if anything got better with time. Almost a carbon copy of a session 2 weeks back, but this time the laps were slightly longer, the reps very slightly faster, and the steady bit at the end much faster, albeit on drier grass:
   1.5M w/u
   10x {0.65M avg 5:33/M, then form drills/0.65M easy}
   6M @ 6:43/M
Total 20M in 2hr20 exactly, i.e. 7 min/M. (Doing the form drills really puts up the average mins/M, honest :- ). Yes they're long recoveries, but then I was starting the 10th rep when I'd already covered 13M, which feels good for HM training.

Hope Lev_ is getting on well, and any other racers.

29/09/2013 at 10:59

Good stuff TR. FWIW, and I wasn't going to say this until you decided, I think you're right. You've been storming some races and focusing on those, including tri's. Maybe if you'd had another 4 weeks for Abo it would have worked but I think you're spot on with the plan after all the recent great performances. Nice 15m by the way.

Edit: CW nice session there.

Scott's blown, hasn't he?

Edited: 29/09/2013 at 11:17
29/09/2013 at 11:21

well done on the 20 CW

HR - I was only thinking today that I could have probably picked it up again next weekend for another 4 to 6 weeks and then been ok for Abo, but its only two weeks until race day from next weekend. 

29/09/2013 at 11:25

the tracker shows that Lev had a pretty good day, so thats pleasing to see esp given the last minute problem.

29/09/2013 at 12:13

Come on Scott, time to hang up your shoes and take that job in Aldi. You can still keep your blog going - just write about different things that's all.

It's all over, son. 

29/09/2013 at 12:35

Could he market beetroot juice?

29/09/2013 at 12:45

LD- you could plagarise Spike Milligan with "Scott Overall, my part in his downfall"

29/09/2013 at 13:02

A quick post to say thanks again for all the support (and as ever TR you were right - too many other things were hurting for me to devote too much attention to the hip flexor). A beautiful day, if pretty windy - though kipsang's stunning run shows that's no excuse. Absolutely incredible result. Full report to follow at some point but in brief I ended up running 2:37:32. Not the A target but I'm still pretty pleased and a good 4 mins off my time in Rome. Halfway pretty much dead on 1:18 but I lost quite a bit of time from there to 32km - the course has a few long steady climbs which I think make it a bit harder to stay on pace unless you're really focused. i think I started playing up to the crowd and tryin to enjoy the event a bit too much - not that I remotely regret that as it made it a bit more fun before the final push. Quads were very painful for the last 10k but managed to hold it together and pass quite a few. And I suppose i also did the thread proud in beating LD's nemesis.  More anon. Hope all racing and training has gone well. I'm off to eat unhealthily...

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