Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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20/11/2013 at 13:13

Al_P yes nice to get back to some proper hills, although not on the scale of the fell running ultra lovers amongst us. Ran it in my Asics Gel Lytes33 2, which are also my race shoes - purely on the pragmatic grounds in that I'm only carrying one pair of shoes around this week. I move in to new house next week. From track to cross-country in 12 hours: fantastic shoes. Possible shoe for you PP?

I'm not sure 78' does 'convert' to 2h45. Maybe it's more that it shows you could do that sort of time with the right marathon specific training.  Yay, Crimbo emoticons - several faux pas in there for CRAB.

The hydration debate's one I'll steer clear of except I'm somewhere in a self-designated middle. I'm sure LD et. al. are right that the body's very good at self-regulating, all things being equal. However, the body's also pretty stupid and doesn't adjust quickly to heat changes etc. This time around in the tropics I had a lot of problems early on and had to take extra electrolytes and sodium to keep my body on track. It didn't like the regime.

Which reminds me. Time to 'fess up over the blood saga. I have an alternative theory now based, in part, from a story I heard about someone taking orange electrolyte supplements whose palms of feet and hands turned orange. Et bien, voila as Poirot might've said before he died. That bizarre blood incident may have been the orange electrolyte residue once my body had expunged all normal sweat out the system. I felt too good for it to have been blood. So 'chapeaux detectives' to TT and Selbs who were rightly cynical from the outset!

Back to hydration, we all know the difference between dark pee and clear pee, and it's probably a decent idea to have clear pee on big race day. That's all.

 

 

Edited: 20/11/2013 at 13:24
20/11/2013 at 13:22

On the subject of what a 78 converts to, i'm 7 seconds behind TR. I think it might just convert to a 2:45 but it's right on the edge, certainly hope it shows sub 2:50 potential though as that's my minimum aim for VLM. Will see where the training takes me though

Edited: 20/11/2013 at 13:26
20/11/2013 at 13:34

77.58- 2.46.24. Think we've discussed this a few times. Personally I think i'd need to to be just sub 77 but you never know on the right day!

EdB
20/11/2013 at 13:46

PP - I can see what you mean about a firmer shoe possibly not being a good idea, but maybe something with less heel drop would be worth trying?  I recently started wearing Fastwitch v5 and Kinvara, both 4mm drop, and find my heels hardly touch the ground in them, which they certainly do in bigger heeled shoes (e.g. Adizero Tempo).  They gave me very sore calves / achilles to begin with, but that gradually went away over a few weeks.  If you didn't heel strike, presumably the thin fat pads wouldn't be an issue?  Just a thought.

EdB
20/11/2013 at 14:18

EdB!  Blast from the past!  How are you?  I was wondering about that but I wonder if I'm past the point of being able to change my running style that much?  Also I did buy the Fastwitch v5 and used them for a HM.  At the time, the firm ride itself didn't particularly bother me (I wasn't aware that my fat pads would be an issue) but they aggravated my arches and started blistering at 10 miles, so just didn't feel comfortable.  Considering the only change I'm aware of is a 4mm lower heel it's surprising what difference it makes in feel.

HR - I'll take a look at the Asics as well, cheers.  BTW, first portion of Soup of the Week today: bacon, mushroom, leek and potato.  The cannellini beans don't get official recognition as they're there just to thicken the sauce and provide some sustenance. 

I canned the rowing interval session, not primarily because of my cold but because I've picked up another mystery ribcage pain when I breathe in sharply.  Possibly something to do with the rowing (??) but only noticed it whilst trying to sleep, and then when trying to sneeze!  Moderate-hard efforts are still OK so I ended up doing a, er, moderate-hard 5k (so, sub-TT effort) in 18:08 (av pace 1:48.8). I've obviously got an endurance bias because even that effort, according to the first race predictor I've found, suggests 6:48 for 2,000m and there's no way I could've pulled that today.  Just hope the ailments clear up sharpish cos I've got bags of mojo but the body can't keep up. 

20/11/2013 at 14:40

EdB - Were you at the Gosport half on Sunday? I remember being passed by a st Albans Strider vest some where around mile 6-7 and there this someone from that club with a name very similar to your forum nickname a few places in front of me in the results. Good result if it was you!

EdB
20/11/2013 at 14:44

PP - I'm good thanks.  Hadn't been running a huge amount this year - was only averaging around 20mpw until August when I decided to try for another sub 75 HM at Gosport (ran 74:08), and am now wondering what to do next.  I don't think there's ever a point where you can't change your running style, especially when it's being affected by the shoes you wear.  I also had arch pain to go with the calf and achilles pain when I started in the Kinvara.  On the first couple of runs I turned around after ten minutes to change into something else!  But after a few weeks of building up I'm now doing 60-90min with no problems, and I love the smoother feel forefoot running gives.  Whether I could maintain it over a marathon without my calves giving up is another matter though.

EdB
EdB
20/11/2013 at 14:48

Al_P - X-post.  Yes, that was me.

EdB
TR
20/11/2013 at 18:35

nice to see EdB around

Old No7 - I think the key thing to remember is that folks might convert a 78 to a 2:45 if the 78 was untapered in a mara build up, mine wasnt. But theres another 4 months to get a bit fitter yet.

20/11/2013 at 20:08

Can't say I enjoyed tonight's run apart from awarding myself brownie points afterwards.  6m after work in heavy rain, strong wind & 3 degrees.  The Sunday XC vest was replaced by 2 layers & a rain jacket, still had shorts on though.  Warming up now with a glass of red.

Good to see EdB popping in, nice work in the half.

Al P.. enjoyed that blog, might pinch a few ideas for my next Mara (I find out at the club dinner on Friday if I'm VLM bound).

20/11/2013 at 20:43

Wardi similar run home here. 7 miles of sleet, snow, hail and rain. Accompanied by thunder, lightning and high winds.

Shorts of course, but did have gloves on!

Edited: 20/11/2013 at 20:43
20/11/2013 at 22:56

Hello all - I've been lurking around here for a while and posted a couple of times pre-New Forest marathon this year. It was a sub 2:50 attempt (PB 2:52 at Brighton) that went horrendously wrong in term of pacing, hydration and nutrition! Ended with a disappointing 3:03.

Off the back of that training block I've PB'd at 10m (59:22) and HM (78:20) so it was nice to get something positive out of the training block. I'm having a 10 day break now before starting the build for VLM 2014 with a provisional target of sub 2:45

TR
21/11/2013 at 06:15

Welcome Ryan, I think you finished just after me Sunday, and at Lordshill (?), looking good for VLM.

good old Broadie !

21/11/2013 at 06:20

PP - fat pad atrophy... I think my physio said I had/have that.i changed trainers and got much better.

al_p - runners need have boost in sale.

mid week XC post marathon for me yesterday. Hard hills got very steep at top. Wet dowhills. 6:33 ave pace for 23rd (better crowd this week). Pleased with 5:55 first and last whole miles on road and 5:40 last 1/4 of mile. Time to start training and I have a coach to help me. Also need to lose a stone i think.

21/11/2013 at 06:21

That soup sounds delicious PP, with proper oomph to it. Favourite ingredients: mushroom, leek & bacon. Yum. On the snack front I'm a bit of a sucker at the moment for Sainsbury's Taste the difference chewy Granola & mixed fruit bar. Hope your rib recovers quickly.

Need to drag myself up and away from the Ashes for a run.

21/11/2013 at 07:29

Hi TR - yeah that was me! Pretty much perfect conditions at Gosport on Sunday.

I was having a personal battle with the really tall guy from Eastleigh who I work with. I put a big effort in between 6-10 to get by him and then paid for it a little in the last 2 where him, you and 3 or 4 others came back past me. Probably only cost me 10/15 secs overall but that was enough.

Did I read that you're doing VLM next year?

21/11/2013 at 07:46

Welcome Ryan.  We have very similar PBs (you convert better to marathon - 2:55 x2 for me) and goals.  I hope to do London next year too... does anyone know when entries open  

21/11/2013 at 07:56

Hi Toro,

I'm pretty sure entry is closed for VLM 2014 unless you have a champs time ( sub 2:45 for senior men)

21/11/2013 at 07:57

Ed - I saw your result from Gosport, looked like a really good run. I also saw you on the Alban Way the day after the Striders dinner (I was cycling)! Might see you tonight or Sunday.

PP - that's an impressive 5k time, and I'm surprised it doesn't convert to something slightly quicker over 2k. I think I only ever did one 5k though. Probably not surprising that you're better over a longer distance.

78 seems about right for 2:45, for someone well trained for the marathon. It's double plus 9 mins which should be doable. A high 78 is pushing it though.

75 mins on the turbo for me last night inc. 3x15mins (5 mins recovery) - 270W then 275W and 290W. the last one still felt reasonably confortable, so next time I think I need to man up and just do all three at 300W.

21/11/2013 at 08:26

Sorry Ryan it was a joke.  I "should" have a club place but waiting for confirmation.

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