Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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24/11/2013 at 11:30

11M felt like quite a long way for me today, TR.  Time to get back in training!

24/11/2013 at 11:35

Indeed Jools, there was no way I would have been able to have done another 8M on top. Funny how it soon disappears.

24/11/2013 at 12:30

11m here too with 3 blokes & a girl from the club.  After a steady 1st mile the rest were in the 7:20-7:30 zone which was encouraging.  I was the only one with shorts on so extra brownie points accrued.

Jools.. nice run & good work in the orchestra pit!  Have you washed your red Xempo shirt yet?

TR.. a decent 12m in the bank.  When do you normally start your VLM campaign?

Old No.7.. wow, sub 29 is flying for 5m, good work.

Congrats to Bufo on 1st team selection.

Got my club VLM place confirmed so I am now entered & confirmed.  Almost time to start grinding again.

24/11/2013 at 12:40

Wardi - great news on the VLM place, does that give you a blue start place ? I usually start the running commutes in the new year and building the long runs back up to 20M by the end of January. I'll probably start building it up mid Jan after the Stubbington 10k, although I need to bridge the mileage gap a bit in December.


24/11/2013 at 14:50
Merry Christmas

No marathons here, not a lot of running to report this year as too busy bike racing but I have entered my first race in 2 years and will be at Stubbington 10km in January.

Rumour has it that I will be doing a little bit more running between now and Feb the 9th .

Best wishes

24/11/2013 at 15:02

Hi Gobi, good to hear from you. Keep us updated on what you're up to.

XC went OK - was in a lead group of 3 for 1.5 of the 3 laps. Then one of the other two started to push the pace - I managed to stay with him for a while and we dropped the other guy. But I couldn't quite hang in on the last climb on the 3rd lap. With about 400m to go, some other guy who wasn't even in the lead group came flying past me - I hadn't seen him coming as we were passing lapped runners, but I wouldn't have been able to hold him off anyway. So 3rd place, 27:33 for supposedly 5M on grass/mud (I doubt it was really 5M!). The guy who ended up 4th ran 32:30 for 10k recently, and the winner who I was about 15s behind by the finish has recently done 32:20, so that's fairly encouraging. I felt strong but need a bit more pace to be able to go with accelerations and to attack the others.

Ride there and back was a bit wet and cold, but feel like I've done a good day of training!

24/11/2013 at 15:19

Welcome back Gobi if one who joined long after you can have that presumption.

Nice build-up running from Jools, TR, Wardi and the concert sounded good Jools.

x-post. Padams that's superb. Great time for x-country and top racing. Really encouraging.

I ran 15m with the Hadleigh 10m race embedded to bring up 65mpw

Race report

Tagline: The most enjoyable race I've done!

Build up: I did a lot to try and force myself not to go too hard today as a chip timed official 10k next Saturday is a big target for me. So, 1. No taper; 2. 65mpw; 3. Ran 2.5miles beforehand; 4. Ran in bricks (Pegasus); 5. Held back at the start.

The race: About 350 entrants I believe. It's surprisingly hilly for Suffolk. It was also very muddy which is less surprising. OK this isn't fell running but even so this is a hilly profile. I reached the start from my warm up and at the off let a lot of people tear past me. I set out conservatively at 6'45 for the first (uphill) mile by which time I was in about 45th place and thinking that it was all rather fun. In mile 2 I put a very gentle amount on the gas pedal: 6'33 on an uphill mile and I found myself feeling strong and passing people. I maintained the same pace for mile 3, also uphill, and continued passing people. Then I upped it a tad more to 6'23, also uphill (very muddy) and this time I was eyeing up several people in the distance who had given me the sort of look at the start that makes you feel you shouldn't be there (I'm sure this was my imagination). Miles 4 and 5 I was overtaking quite a few with a bit of comfort and generally I felt strong and easy.

By mile 5 there were two distinct large groups ahead, one about 200 metres away, the other double that. I upped the pace to sub 6h and slowly but surely began reeling them in. When I caught the second group I just decided to go straight past them and felt strong and very comfortable so just decided to leave them to it and began tracking the ones up front. By mile 7 I caught the faster group and it coincided with a drinks station. I knew that with 3 miles to go taking a drink was a waste of time so I ran straight past it whilst they all weaved for cups and 10 seconds later I was 50 metres in front of them. Must remember that tactic! For the last few milesI kicked on a bit, even up a pretty long hill during mile 8, but stayed within myself too.

Finished in 14th place in 63'13 off HR157 which is 10bpm below my half-marathon rate, wrapped up with another 2.5 miles. The winning time was 55' so you can probably see from that it's fairly hilly. After the first mile no-one overtook me and I think I hauled in 31 runners. The most satisfying and enjoyable race I've done. I wish I could try and learn from CRAB and Al_P and do that sort of -ve split in a marathon. It makes it very satisfying. I kept some matches today and that's really pleasing. Sorry if this sounds over happy: just felt / feel it's clicking a bit on the pace and fitness front.

Target now is Saturday's 10k. Want to try, try, try and let rip a pb for PO10 etc.

Edited: 24/11/2013 at 16:14
24/11/2013 at 15:48

nice XC Padams sounds like you were keeping some good company.

Wardi congrats on getting the VLM place

HR nicely judged 10 miler, always satisfying to be picking people off

16 miles for me today, set off with the intention of doing 14 but the legs were feeling pretty good despite yesterdays efforts so extended it slightly. Hurting afterwards though so may pay for that tomorrow.

Edited: 24/11/2013 at 15:48
24/11/2013 at 19:48

Gobi - see you there.

Padams - sounds like you are in good nick

HR - good to see you enjoying yourself. What sort of 10k time do you think you can run ?

24/11/2013 at 20:22

Gobi & TR - I shall also be at Stubbington Have run really badly there the last 2 years so looking for a decent run this time.

HR - what's your current 10k PB?

I've had a niggling groin problem for ages now and have tried various things - rest, physio x 2 (tight glute), osteo x 2 (tight back) but it didn't improve despite dedicated strengthening and stretching. I haven't done any static stretching for 2 days and it seems to have gone. Definitely losing faith in regular stretching

24/11/2013 at 20:25

Million dollar question buddy (edit, TR). My pb (TR and Ryan) is a fairly feeble 37'30 set 2 weeks after VLM11 but then I've only ever run 3 of them. Tuesday's track session was encouraging and I know I'm fitter & quicker now than at any previous. If it's true as my coach reckons that I'm closing on 17'30 standard for 5k then ? dunno ? what would you reckon from that? Might try and target sub 36 and see what happens! Need a frost-free morning for the 08.30 start.

Edit - I'm being slightly coy in the sense though that I really want to taper a bit and try and let rip. Want to give it a real go.

Ryan I did a groin in 2009 and it's one of those injuries which I think you just have to rest and then rest. How long did you leave it? Think I backed off for a very tiresome six weeks and did no running. Depends how bad it is I suppose. Maybe get some ice in close (watch out!) but seriously it's so damned hard to get at that I would leave it well alone re. stretching and let it rest. Don't often advise that I have to say.

Edited: 24/11/2013 at 20:42
24/11/2013 at 20:48

HR - I would guess that 17:30 is approx low 36s. Not sure, but I know that I'm aiming sub 36 for Stubbington based on my recent results. My 5M back in the summer was ~5:45 pace , that must be well under 36.

Ryan - see you there too. I do a few stretches when I have issues but then let it settle, too much stretching keeps stirring things up I find. I still havnt seen a lion(ess) do any stretches before she chases her lunch.

24/11/2013 at 20:59

My 5k this year was 17:48 and 10k was 35:42 - the 10k was after loads of marathon miles and I get worse as the distance decreases!! I would say that for most people 17:30 = sub 36 or certainly very close to it. Sounds like you fancy having a real go at it  

The groin has never been painful, only discomfort and never when I'm running. An annoyance really. I've had up to 5 days off so never an extended break. If it shows up again soon I'll try a proper rest but fingers crossed all will be well.

Thanks for the input guys

24/11/2013 at 21:12
HR I got a park run 17:42 & 36:14 10k. Think both can be bettered mind
25/11/2013 at 07:46

Great: thanks guys. Might see if I can get somewhere near 36' then. I've received this week's training plan from my coach which includes a bit of 10k pace work. 

Ryan if it doesn't hurt whilst running how about getting some ice in there each time you get back from a run? Or do you anyway?

25/11/2013 at 08:30

Very interesting link on the migraines CW! Well done on sticking to the downtime. Hopefully that minor niggle you can still feel is nothing and you're all ready to go.

Good news bufo. Congrats.

Old No7 - nicely done. The lack of stretching obviously doesn't affect you

Nicely controlled racing HR. And yes, with the tonsillitis I simply stopped running. I'm getting good at being sensible And 17:30 = a good shout of a sub-36.

That xc bodes very well for your shape Padams.

After nothing Thursday and Friday I got in an a gentle 7 and 8 over the last two days. Will start to ramp it back up a bit now and hopefully that's my winter woes out of the way!

25/11/2013 at 09:28

Nice to see Gobi popping; Merry Xmas indeed! More good work over the weekend and good recoveries from the marathoners. First mini block of 4 x 50+ weeks done and ticked off, including 4 x 17 milers, 8 x 10 (hilly) milers and recovery runs. 5,10,5,10,rest,17, 7 is my default setting at the moment. 

25/11/2013 at 11:16

Nice stuff going on - particular congrats to bufo and good running from HR (enjoyable report), Old No7 and padams.  CW and TT, hopefully that's the worst of the niggles over.

I'm a lot less glum this Monday morning than I was last week.  Shin splints still there in left shin (hmph) but yesterday and today I am no longer actively limping and rest is definitely improving things.  I'm hoping I'll be able to get back to some running in another week or so.  

With thanks to Al_P for guidance, I've been doing some pool running, which is probably why I'm feeling less glum (in the past, I've tended just to curl up and become really inactive when injured).  Some tough interval sessions, including yesterday's 8 x 5 mins (1 min recoveries) + 10 x 45s (15s recoveries) for a total of 47.5 mins effort and today's 3 sets of 6 x 2:30 mins (30s recoveries, 1 min between sets) for a total of 45 mins effort.  It's tough to get the HR up (apparently it's generally 10% or so lower in water as the water pressure helps the heart pump blood around) and perceived effort is higher but I've managed to do the efforts at gen low 150bpms, which prob equates to HM effort (mid 160s), with sprint efforts getting up to around 160bpm (equiv to mid 170s).  

I have to say, although my form prob isn't the best and the flotation belt doesn't quite fit so I've ended up with nasty rubbing on my sides as it rides up around my ribs, I'm a bit of a convert to water running - I think I might try to keep a session a week even when back running as it's great to be able to do proper aerobic/anaerobic sessions without stressing the body/pounding concrete.  Plus the resistance factor means I'm sure it's good for strengthening muscles too.  

Edited: 25/11/2013 at 11:18
25/11/2013 at 12:16

Great stuff, Old No 7.

Wardi -- great to hear you're in VLM.

Gobi -- what's happening on Feb the 9th?

Padams -- that was a strong XC judging by the form of those around you.

HR -- sounds like you had a lot of fun in your 10M with the tactical slow start, and you're on good form.

Lev/Al -- maybe I should give that water running a go the next time I'm crocked. I could almost do my commute like that as I go along the river anyway ;- )

And well done on all the training the rest of you.

I did 7M @ 7:10/M or so on the grass yesterday. I was still a bit aware of my foot niggle but hardly at all. One factor could be that most of my shoes are badly worn on the outer edges, maybe encouraging my foot to roll outwards and so collapse my foot bones a bit, whereas I did the grass run on my nice XTalon212s which are still in good nick. Anyway, I've experimentally bodged some hot melt glue to reshape one of my worn pairs to see if that helps. But I'll be shoe shopping soon I think. A rather feeble 8M on the bike this morning.

25/11/2013 at 13:19

Been chatting with coach and has suggested that I run a positive split for my marathon based on these articles

My first sub 3 was run of a small negative split and my second road marathon was still just a sub 3 but did not really go to plan. It became an unplanned positive split.

I am going with the suggestion to run a positive split,as my upcoming marathon is a training marathon for London, but a big part of this training schedule has been to do things that are different to improve performance. Running a planned positive split is a first for me. Anyone else back this theory or have an alternative view?

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