Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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11/03/2014 at 23:34
Nice doubles wardi, ljb. Great 'structured' (hamsters are lernin the lingo) run piman, very nicely paced. Lovely sesh Lev...faaast and loong!
Danger zone for me (nice excuse) to bin the 600 reps in the schedule for an enjoyable and enjoyed 3year old birthday celebration for my oldest daughter. (too much cake / party junk food/ obligatory wine once youngsters were a snoozin)
6am, however.....beckons

Ps. must have a significantly sized kitchen if you're able to do strides up and down it!!

Edit: testing new saucony mirage 3s in the am...could this be farewell to the Mizuno 'wet sponges'?
Edited: 11/03/2014 at 23:48
12/03/2014 at 06:26

Nice session Lev, will be interested in your shoe question myself. Have some ds racer 9's on the go now but have ordered some ds racer 10's to replace them with after a few more miles.

Any excuse for cake and wine is a good one Tmoth! Hope your daughter had a nice birthday.

12/03/2014 at 08:12

Nice training everyone, especially that mammoth session by Lev (who obviously thought a standard BAC session isn't hard enough by adding extra!).

35 mins on the TT bike for me before it got dark, just to check it still works and to get used to it on the road again (race in 10 days). Then club session of 8x600, 2x300.

12/03/2014 at 08:14

Quickly because I'm at work but A.W. I've gone for the Eton and Windsor HM at Dorney Lakes. It's flat but prone to catching every breeze, apparently. So in conditions like this it's pb potential.

8 miles early doors and hoping to add some more later. Left calf was fine so that just leaves top of right foot but it's all a warning.

Will read back properly but I can see some great training from folks.

12/03/2014 at 08:15
Had another great Italian boozing / racing weekend. Brescia was fab.

At last some sort of progress in this appalling sows ear of a VLM build-up. Four minute improvement on my half-Mara time of the previous weekend.

5 weeks to go, so a simple extrapolation means I could be in 1:06 half shape by then. Overall is in real is Mo.
12/03/2014 at 09:57

Lev - Cracking session. I might have to get in on this BAC business before Berlin.

I've just been informed that I'll be running off Green start for VLM.  Isn't that just about the least relevant for a sub-3 pacer?  Am I right in saying that green GFA (as opposed to red "fast" GFA) is for those who have qualified with a time slower than 3:10?  So who is going to use the services of a sub-3 pacer??  At least it's less than a mile before we meet up with Blue start runners, so some chance of hooking up with club mates I know wanting to use my pacing services? 

12/03/2014 at 09:58

Morning all. I'm in the middle of an increasingly hectic period with work and home stuff at the moment, so finding it difficult to get on here, never mind keep up........

LS - are you applying for the job of CW's deputy? Nice long run!

Nicely done at Cambridge CW. And of course you had to do another HM(+) afterwards too!!!

Congrats on the sizeable pb A.W.

And likewise bedders.

Dachs - what way have your training efforts been focused over the last time? Primarily longer tempos if I remember rightly? Your Mordor comment to CW actually made me lol

selbs - great news!

DrD - that's rotten luck. Fingers crossed for a miraculous recovery!

OS - brilliant! "Don't worry, I'm sure he'll still go aqua-jogging"

How's the calf today TR?

Dan - I've been there and got the t-shirt. I'm slowly learning to ensure I stick in my optimal mileage range - my recent cold probably helped remind me - and to not run if I feel it's the right thing to do or if I'm too tired. Easier said than done, despite the fact that I know it works (that was basically what I done for Amsterdam). Sometimes the hardest thing is knowing when you're just approaching that 'too tired' zone and backing off. I will give a +1 to PP's story. All my pbs have been set post knee op so there's plenty more there for you.

Too much cracking training and variations of 20m races to comment on individually, but well done all.

Some (overdue) faster running for me yesterday evening as part of a 9m - 2 x 1/2m, 2 x 3/4m on road. Full recoveries. Hard effort on the 1/2s (average pace 4:44m/m), a little more controlled on the 3/4s (average pace 4:53m/m). I made sure any slopes were in my favour as I just wanted to get the legs turning over a bit quicker. Felt like a cart-horse on the first 1/2, but much smoother on the first 3/4 (last one was into a bit of a head-wind, so not as smooth, but still good). I seem to be a little further along than at the same point pre-Amsterdam so fingers crossed I continue that trend.

12/03/2014 at 10:01

Gotta love this weather...

MLR yesterday morning, out of the door at 4.45am, long-sleeves, gloves, came back with frozen hair and eyebrows! Was meant to be 12 miles but overshot it and found myself 2 miles from home having done the subscribed twelve. Had to leg it back to have time for shower/breakfast before work.

Second run at 2.30 in the afternoon - quick four miles at marathon pace. Gorgeous 'spring' sunshine, racing shorts and a VEST. Ace!

Did a really (very) steady ten miler this morning but I think the weekends racing has caught up with me. Had the exact symptoms TR mentions further up the page regards delayed DOMS in the quads but nowhere else. I'm terrified of things going tits up in the next few weeks so am doing my best to keep a close eye on everything, just hard to know when to run through the niggles or ease off....



12/03/2014 at 10:56

Some stonking long runs & sessions on here over the past few days.  I am sure I am not alone in worrying whether my own training is sufficient having seen what others are putting in.  

DanA - chin up... Feel terrible for you, but there is always good news around the corner and I think you are due some!

PP - how do you know that you are starting from the Green start?  Seems like an admin balls-up to me... hope it gets itself sorted so you don't waste your efforts.

HR - I love your "danger Zone" terminology - it definitely describes how I am feeling.  10 days of hard training left before VLM taper and I think I have a niggle in every part of my body.  

Just a steady 10 for me this morning.  Isn't it just great running in this weather!?  As long as we don't have an early summer (with high temperatures in April) I am all for this good weather. 

Had a rather enjoyable 8x2 mile session (round a 0.8 mile loop) on Saturday in the midday heat (training for the mind and body) and a track session on Monday (2,4,6,8,1k,8,6,4,2).  The rest has mainly been steady this week.


Quick additional question - do others on here do core stability work? circuits etc? and if so, how much and how often?  I'm torn between the benefits of doing these sessions and the chance to get some additional rest.

12/03/2014 at 11:07

CW - great effort at the Cambridge Half - 76 is still a great time. I really don't know how you managed another half after a flat out HM race (not surprised you're a bit 'jiggered'). I barely made it to the pub! I think I might be turning into you - after my 26 miler my feet look pretty similar to yours with a huge red area on the top of one of my toes. I'll spare everyone the photo! I tried to run with it on Monday but I must have altered my gait and developed a groin strain the next day. I think I need to take things easy for a few days to avoid compounding things further.

DanA - good analogy. So cruel for it to happen to close to the end.

PiMan - nice 13 miler with MP. (plus a great 24 at the weekend!)

Lev - very impressive to BAC up your long run with another good session (see what I did there?)

L Diddy - I like the sound of these weekends, I must try and arrange something similar for summer/autumn. 

J Itch - nice job at Finchley (enjoyed your Fetch Blog )

Dr Dave - still can't believe you're benched. Praying for the miracle. (I won't quote Luke 4:23 at you!)

TS - my aim is sub 2.40, but will be happy with anything under 2.45.






12/03/2014 at 11:16

bainspj - RW provide at least one pacer of each pace for each of the starts, so they've organised it already and I assume they know what they're doing, and that's what they want!  I did ask about Blue start but maybe someone got in there before me. (I might have another word though...)

Re: core exercise, I used to do it a couple of times a week until I got a bit bored of it quite frankly.  It's not quite the same thing, but I do think that indoor rowing is very good exercise for the core (get me under the right light and I've definitely got more of a six-pack than I use to!) with the added benefit that it's an excellent aerobic exercise, so a good complement to the running, and/or possibly useful as a substitute for easy/recovery runs.

Edited: 12/03/2014 at 11:17
12/03/2014 at 11:26

Thats a rapid pace on those reps TT.

bainspj - last year I was pretty religious with two sessions of strength and core work until about a month to go to race day. I did always find I was knackered though every session I did. This year I dropped those strength sessions from November and have had the energy to do more miles and feel I'm getting more from my running sessions.

But I will say what I did last year was necessary for me as I had various weaknesses which needed to be kept in check and I benefitted in the long run through doing the sessions. I guess it depends on if you need to work on any aspects of your strength or condition or have the time/energy to fit extra in to your schedule?

MLR of 15 miles this morning, not the most enjoyable or comfortable run. Very much feeling battered and bruised after my massage. Was pretty pedestrian pace wise, but thought that was better than forcing it.

12/03/2014 at 16:53

bainspj - I occasionally do the core session with my running club but I am rubbish at it.

AW - well done for the MLR even when not feeling quite up to it.

TT - some nice speedy running there.


Grrr - I've just tried to upgrade to the Champs start for VLM but was told I can't do it after the Champs entries have closed (ie Jan 17th) . A bit annoyed but I guess at least that means I will have to return to London in 2015.  

12/03/2014 at 18:10

TT - tight, but runnable, still swells a bit during the day, but its getting better.

Lev - big BAC session there, theres no rocket science behind why those sessions get folks so fit, all that quality and mileage combined

PP - i've only actually done about 4 of the planned sessions, so will do them again through the summer towards my Sept 1/2 IM

the good thing about doing the BAC on the turbo is that you can run 18M early doors the following morning (if you get up early enough to run that far on a school day).


12/03/2014 at 18:52

Not read back properly but does that mean u ran 18m this morning TR??? If so then as you might say to CW your injury is more a nervous nerys or sommit. That's a long morning run!

12/03/2014 at 19:52

Selbs - its sh*t or bust week , I'm sure its in the P n D book ! 12M Monday, and 18 today. No spasms today (Monday there were early on) and then a day in between to massage out the Swelling. I have bruising and swelling that I could show CW (his injuries are all fictitious). I'm usually running a week after straining a calf (last Wednesday), I just dont have time to ease the mileage up. Its a lot of running up and down a 2M stretch though (in case I need to stop and walk home). Tomorrow night I'll read up what that particular chapter says for Friday morning, more sitting down training tomorrow morning.

Edited: 12/03/2014 at 19:55
Cheerful Dave    pirate
12/03/2014 at 19:59

You might get to pace Nel if she runs off the celeb start, PP.  Or is she expecting again?  I understand their logic in having a pacer on each start but as you say, apart from maybe one or two quick celebs you'll be on your own for the first mile.  Your problem will be negotiating the celebs at the front in decent time so you're not playing catch up trying to find the blue pacer.

Intervals for me today.  Not particularly quick, probably need a light day or two after the mileage at the weekend - 22 saturday was followed by a long hard ride sunday and a cheeky 10 on Monday.  That's a lot for me, even if it's just a warm up for padams.

18 in the morning before school TR?  That's good going.

12/03/2014 at 20:35

Phil. I ran off the green start last year (too complicated/ boring to explain why). As CD says I had to push through a few dozen fat soap actors (and Ed Balls) to get going but then had an empty road for a couple of miles. I actually found it much less intense than the other starts and would happily go back there given the choice. 

12/03/2014 at 20:41

Nice reps PP. I can't remember when I did anything that quick. No doubt yours were impressive too Padams. And yours certainly were TT!

TR -- sorry about the swollen bits. (I was surprised at quad DOMS, because since lengthening my stride a few years back, my calves usually seemed to be the limiting factor -- unless downhills are involved.) Impressive morning session though.

Great session Lev_. I'm no expert on heel drop, except I've done most of my training in flats for ages, so I don't really want a built-up heel. In theory it may reduce the amount of energy storage and return you get from your achilles. By the same token, if you're not used to low heels, your calves and achilles may suffer a bit initially. I didn't actually reduce the heel drop on my Lunaracers -- or not yet. I just dug out material where I'd not be landing, leaving the heel grips where I would. Might do though.

Tmoth -- my kitchen is quite small. That's probably why it was ill-advised running to work after running up and down in it (Well, also through an 'archway' into the dining room.)

LD -- what, did you race another half then?

PP -- isn't green for celebrities, most of whom can't run sub-3... except you-know-who. I think you'll be Nell's personal trainer this year. [Damn, CD got there before me.]

Bedders -- great training, sounds like you're owed a chill-out for a few days though.

bainspj -- I do core exercises, partly because I'm trying to avoid the recurrence of lower back problems. Nominally every day -- in practice more like 3 times a week.

Luke -- I'm proud of you doing the long run. And you're setting a better example than me _not_ posting a picture of your foot! Aww, shame they wouldn't let you upgrade to the champs start. See you at the confluence at 3M or so...

A 7 + 4M double for me today, all slow, but not as crummy as yesterday. Hopefully I'll be on for a MLR tomorrow if I have time, but just steady, no speed.

12/03/2014 at 21:01

TT - shifting some! 

Bains - loving the 'rather enjoyable 8x2m' - 2 mile repeats?? Sounds horrendously tough - what pace you hitting those for? was listening to something on youtube where the runner in question said he did't bother with core work - just picked up 'rocks' (american for stones) whilst running trails (!) and that worked the whole upper body. 

A.W & Bedders - lots (and lots and lots) of quality mileage going on...

and all the rest..

finally got the 6x600s done in the shiny new saucony mirage 3s...they're keepers i reckon.

11m total with first attempt at the sesh, splits: 2:02, 2:06, 2:07, 2:03, 2:10 & 2:09 - last two were ever so slightly uphill.

as for tomorrow: to hills or not to hills...?


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