Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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23/04/2014 at 00:22

Wardi - Seatallan eh? Never heard of it. We did the Coniston horse shoe on saturday. Cloudless sky. I did it in lightweight trainers instead of my hefty 20+ year old Brasher Boots and the difference was significant. I found it very easy going over 11 miles.

Think I should get a trip to Decathlon for some lightweight boots.

23/04/2014 at 00:40

Dids.. easiest way to Seatallan (for us) was to climb Buckbarrow first (start point half way between Gosforth and Wasdale Head).  Seatallan is like climbing the long side of an egg - you keep thinking you can see the summit but it isn't!  BTW on Sunday we saw a guy climbing Scafell Pike in a tweed jacket - excellent old school behaviour!

23/04/2014 at 06:16
23/04/2014 at 07:54

Since I've started doing more cycling I've felt less injury prone for running - maybe the cycling is strengthening the glutes?

PP - I don't think that would be much of a target for you at the moment. I think my 5000m PB is 15:46, but my 5k (road) PB is 15:31, which would be a bit more of a challenge.

I see the ES didn't actually bother to interview Marigold but instead just copied the wording from his blog. Good to see him getting some publicity though.

Can't believe no one has commented on the pic of Njord I posted yesterday. I was horrified by it.

Just a bit of easy cycling yesterday as my legs were a bit battered from Monday's long (for me) run.

23/04/2014 at 08:32

Padams - when you have seen it in person, the damage is already done!

Bob - that article was basically just a cut and paste job out of my blog! The headline is a bit misleading as they have no details of actual "selection" and are just confirming that I got under the 2:17 quali time.... I got excited myself for a moment

Edited: 23/04/2014 at 08:32
23/04/2014 at 09:08

165 stone??? You fat b*stard!

23/04/2014 at 10:09

Marigold - And they've pilfered an old photo of you crossing the line in some pedestrian time!  Sloppy journalism, but all good for the media profile, eh? 

Dan - Forgot to say, great to see you back at it. 

Padams - That 5k time is a bit tasty for my liking!  Let's see how the summer progresses...

Dids - I'm sure Lydiard had 98% of the bread-and-butter basics sorted out, and I agree with the argument that as far as most mortals are concerned they might be better off running more than doing crunchies, but if Salazar has his guys doing heavy amounts of functional core strength training (or did he post up a load of spoof videos on youtube to put people off the scent?) there must be real benefit to be had?  I don't know whether that's in terms of injury defence or direct running performance, mind...

Like many I simply CNBA to do regular core/strength training, although I think the rowing does a pretty good job of conditioning parts of the body that running doesn't reach. I'm convinced it's had a direct effect on my cycling fitness (stronger quads, perhaps even stronger upper body for maintaining position on the bike whilst climbing, etc...)  Maybe the effect on running is more indirect: more time spent doing aerobic training, burning calories, etc. but I'm definitely a quicker runner for all the x-training anyway.

23/04/2014 at 10:15

 Ah, nice one Padams. Hopefully it all goes to plan.

LD/PP - Lydiard wasn't against cross training, etc, at all. Far from it. Weights were a no-no for him, but other stuff was employed. The aim was general strength and flexibility - he liked his runners to be supple. You also need to consider that his guys also came from a more active background than most of us and weren't sat in an office all day, so general strength and conditioning would already have been ahead of us.

23/04/2014 at 10:31

Wardi - Sounds like you did some great walking!, glad the weather was good! I need to reccy the Seatallan area for Wasdale horseshoe fell race in July. I'm ok on most of the route but I've never done the route up to Seatallan and then across to Scoat fell/Pillar. From there I know the route but apparently the path up the back of Great Gable in the mist can be tricky/easy to miss in mist. Will actually need to do some marathon type stuff for this as it's 21m, 9000ft of ascent and considered the hardest of the long lakeland fell races with Ennerdale (23m)

PP - agree about rowing, it's an ideal all over conditioner really and excellent for leg strength and overall power. As I've joined a gym again I'll be doing some every week and I'm sure it'd be of great benefit for the fells.

23/04/2014 at 11:48

Interesting stuff regarding core work and cramp. I guess that everyone is different and you have to find what works for you.

I've had hamstring cramp in two marathons and avoided it in two. Both times I got cramp (25 and 23m) I had started way too fast.

Leading into both decent marathons I had very different approaches to core work - last year I did core stuff three time a week, particularly focused on glutes, along with daily stretching. This time I did no structured core work and pretty much no stretching. The only real difference I noticed between the two was the last year my glutes felt really tired all the time and this time they didn't. Got an equal amount of niggles but no serious injuries either time.


Edited: 23/04/2014 at 11:49
23/04/2014 at 12:07

Holy fck RS just tried that single leg bridging! Thought my hamstrings were going to pop. Might try the two legged ones first!

23/04/2014 at 13:24

I had a dodgy hammy last year.  Physio gave me a number of exercises, which included the one legged bridge (as pictured) and a number of others. 

the "worst" was one where you start in that position and continuously dip the pelvis down to an inch off the floor and back up...   I've never felt anything like it!

Noted above a few comments re strength in the hips etc... what we need to remember is that it is not only about having strength in the hips, but also even strength between both sides (and also front & back).  Uneveness is a killer (it was what caused me to have issues).

Currently: race weight + 2.2kg  and still unable to run due to cold/sore throat

23/04/2014 at 14:39

but if Salazar has his guys doing heavy amounts of ....

As you were.

23/04/2014 at 14:56

Hello. I usually only lurk here until I manage to work out who all the dozens of different people are,  but I would like to contribute to the 'core work' discussion. I doubt it makes you any faster, but I do pilates and other core exercises and have done since before I started running more seriously. Anyway. Last summer I raced a 10k quite hard on a hot day and at the end was working so hard I felt like I might piss myself. But I didn't piss myself and I put this down to my super-strength pelvic floor muscles from pilates. This made it all seem worthwhile.

23/04/2014 at 16:04
RS78 wrote (see)


 Ok, as CRAB has already lowered the tone, can I ask if the Astana team adopt this position to let the blood flow in more quickly?

Re core and strengthening.  I dont see that it will make you faster but it will help to prevent the loss of muscle mass and tone with ageing, sadly inevitable beyond 40, and so prevent injury. 


23/04/2014 at 16:10

So in summary, core training to strengthen the pelvic floor muscles is essential for old people to prevent them pissing themselves.

I'm on it!

23/04/2014 at 16:20

I'm glad to hear that PP considering that we're planning on zipping around Berlin together...

23/04/2014 at 16:46

I can't vouch for my bladder control after a few post-race pints of Schneider-Weisse!

23/04/2014 at 17:53

Hail Hail


Padams - some of us nearly walked out the pub on Saturday (before VLM) night when "that" haircut walked in.  Horrified, I had to have a 3rd pint.

23/04/2014 at 18:54

Lit - you have your intensities wrong I reckon. Trying to ignore needing a pee is MP, 10K pace is more trying not to puke, or shit yourself IMO.

8M in the scoobies, 20x100 in the lido, and a right drenching on the bike commute !

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