Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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13/08/2014 at 09:18

Jools –  love the photo!

PP – emmm....’who wears short shorts?’.... – nice Tuesday though.

Dachs..very sharp 10k!

CW – as others have said sounds like great hols...with some decent training thrown in (I would expect no less!) careful on them roots mind...

Padams – glad your getting back to it proper now.

SL – tasty 10k even if you didn’t quite enter the ‘pain container’.

Bains – nice sesh there.

My mojo is returning though its taken a few days and a missed BAC sesh (was meant to be the 20mp 4x4min 20mp) i had actually postponed it till this morning then when this morning came shelved it again – I am ashamed – but in my meagre defence i have had a couple late evenings doing Rocky Balboa style cross training in the form of chainsawing up some fallen tree’s in my garden and hauling the logs up a steep bank to the log pile and splitting them. Numerous reps required due to the realisation on the first attempt that a wheely bin filled with logs is far to heavy to drag up a steep grassy had to half empty it, and was still mighty tough – felt like i was in a weird version of a strong man competition for skinny endurance runners! Anyhoot commuted 9 at 7:15pace this am and plan to double up with 5 home later.

Tmap – whiiiiissssky...

13/08/2014 at 11:53

Thanks all for the support and thoughts - I totally agree with Tmap, this forum is really fantastic.  I really appreciate it.  

Still feeling in a bit of a muddle with it all but did manage to drag myself out on Monday for a couple of hours just running along and taking it easy - it did feel quite nice to get some air again.  And managed an easily paced commute into work this morning (I know the route is around 9m but wasn't watch-wearing/watching - thanks Padams and SL - definitely the right move).  So tentative steps towards rediscovering the bug, but not there quite yet - think that will require personal stresses to vanish.  

PP, would be nice to meet up for a LR some time - I suspect that changing up running routes might also help to reinvigorate things.  Can you let me know (imagine via the ersatz email that is FB) what you have planned?  

Great training and racing from Dachs (nice to see you around again!), PPbainspCW and jools(bub)ka, and fantastic that Padams is back at it.  Glad to hear the mojo's returning Tmoth.

13/08/2014 at 12:00

Dachs - nice pb equalling win

Padams - good to hear the leg is fairing better

PP - impressive reps as ever

Tmoth - always nice when the mojo returns, hopefully Lev is headed in the same direction.

Club run last night, baulked when they said we were doing 6x5 minutes with 1 minute recovery! The idea was to treat it as a tempo run rather a full on interval effort, so kept it to HM pace or a bit quicker. Turned into a good session not sure that you wouldn't get more benefit from just doing a consistent tempo though

13/08/2014 at 15:58

Good to see Padams coming back, nice chainsawing from Tmoth and good to hear Lev taking it easy with a 2 hour run

PP - could definitely be interested then.  How do those of us with no connections to Kent AC enter then?  £500 in a brown envelope to you I assume?

13/08/2014 at 17:12

Tmoth - I just read your post as a training montage.  Rocky! Rocky!

Lev - Yep, let me check the diary and get something over to you.  This weekend's out as I'm either getting up stupid-early on Sunday to finish off a monster-mileage week before trotting off to the Oval for the test match, or I'm staying in with a fuzzy head, post-BBQ and watching my club mate Paul Pollock in the Euro champs marathon on the telly.  Decision to me made when the alarm goes off, probably!

Dachs - Pretty simple I think.  Confirm your intent either way with me, turn up on the day and pay the non-member track fee (3 quid I think?)  I guess we're working out number of events/cut-off times once we know who's turned up.  You could buy me a beer in agents' fees in the pub afterwards if it makes you feel better.  

Easy spin/run double today and watching people running on the telly.

Edited: 13/08/2014 at 17:14
13/08/2014 at 22:48
How depressing to see Farah run with absolutely no contrition or apology to the country he betrayed. I notice he gave some interview in which he said he didn't run in Glasgow because he thought he might lose.

Can't believe that anyone could read it and defend him afterwards.

Anyway, what was the point in him even running tonight. It was like Marigold beating me and some of the other crapper forumites. Yet he cheered and did his pathetic mo bot. An imbecile, a traitor and a tw@t.

Compare him to Dwain Chambers. A drug cheat who is a much bigger man and competitor than Farrah will ever be.
14/08/2014 at 04:50

I took an energy gel without water in my Hm race on Saturday with only 4 miles to go. I lost 3 mins over the final 4 miles and missed 85 mins by 3 mins. Lesson learned and I have another shot in two weeks in a HM and aiming for sub 85 mins again.

Edited: 14/08/2014 at 04:53
14/08/2014 at 08:46

ALP loved the report hope the legs weren't too beaten up by the race, great result again

bainspj great sunday pickup after saturdays race, running is a funny old game! superb tuesday speed session; hope 5k goes well tonight

tmoth/lev sounds like the spring will be fully back your steps soon. did last marathon without a garmin (well it fell off at about 8 miles) definitely liberating running without on equal half splits, so a lot to be said for it

PP superb silver but disappointing gurn; definitely not putting enough effort in. top result and continued outstanding training

SL 10k result obviously all relative; hope heart flutter sorted soon and you able to 'hurt' yourself properly again

Jools amazing picture ; should be the cover of next runnersworld, love the phallic balloon stack behind you

CW glad you back to training and hamstring nothing serious but sticking out tendons sounds dramatic!

stet never been a member of a club but having done last 2 weeks bac sessions with one am seriously considering it (plus you need to be if you want a championship start), seems a lot easier to run faster with others

Dachs hope you had a great time. nice PB equalling run even if not quite the sub 33 you wanted. can't be far off

padams glad you back to it and seemingly not too much harm done

This week 6 mile easy monday, 6+5 easy double tues and last night was second outing with poole ac and the bac session. 4x15mins off 3 mins. Felt much harder this week and legs given a good smashing helped by some faster runners. Anyway 15 mins (approx 2.6 miles each) were averaged at 5.55, 5.54, 5.57 and 5.53mm, session with wu/wd eeked out 15.23 miles. over 70 miles in the last 6 days, not really planning to up mileage anymore this time round

14/08/2014 at 09:08

Dr Dave Totally agree, I ran my first club effort session last night with Leigh on sea Striders (5x1k efforts) and haven't pushed myself that hard in a long time. I'm definitely joining up, membership form filled in and ready to go!
Really nice bunch of people too.

Edited: 14/08/2014 at 09:10
14/08/2014 at 11:49

Tmap -- whisky tour sounds good. I've been sampling bottled beers all holiday from Booths, the wondrous Keswick supermarket. Had an espresso stout last night that touched the spot after a big family walk (Bowfell & Crinkle Crags). Sorry it's been such a tough year, hope things are smoother from now on.

Tmoth -- that could definitely be a new TV sport. Actually we had wheelie bin racing in a street party once, would have been more 'interesting' if they were loaded with logs...

Lev_ -- don't be afraid to have a few days of zero running. Sometimes you just need a complete break, and you won't lose all your hard-won fitness that quickly.

Well trained Stet, ON7 & DrD.

I realised I was in danger of finishing my holiday without doing any actual fell-running adventures (other than the race at the start), such was my zeal to 'catch up' with overdue HM-oriented training. But I got out for a modest 10M, 2hr adventure up a couple of hills (Bleaberry Fell & High Seat) this morning which felt good. Boggy, rainy and slippery rocks again, but still satisfying.

14/08/2014 at 20:29

Apologies for recent radio silence.  During July my legs felt increasingly tired & heavy so I've spent the last 3-4 weeks doing no more that 2-3 runs a week and a bit on the bike.  Back to it at the York 5k last night, a very rusty 20:58 from me which is just about what I was expecting after recent inactivity.  Nice to back racing though and feeling a bit more spring in the legs.  Had a chat with the other TR (middle ground thread), plus PRF & his girlie Hannah.  The latter knocked 30 secs off her 5k PB to clock 17:38 and take 1st lesser spotted prize.

Speedy 10k's from SL & Dachs noted.  Good to see Padams & Dr Dave getting back to it.

Very pleased for Marigold & Marders, well deserved. 

TMap.. nice to see you back, sorry to hear it's been a tough year.

PP.. many congrats on the BMAF silver!  BTW saw Steve Hackett's band doing some early Genesis stuff at a festival last weekend.  How's this for a setlist, storming performance!


Edited: 14/08/2014 at 20:32
14/08/2014 at 22:10
DrD - Some good volume/quality in those BAC sessions. (My auto-correct wanted to write BACKFLIP there. Any of that going on??)

Wardi - Oof! Classic stuff. The only time I've seen Hackett live was when he joined tribute band The Musical Box on stage at the Royal Albert Hall (for an encore of FoF, naturally). A pretty good endorsement of a tribute band! Nice 5k.

Another step up for me today, my first time doing two running doubles in a week. 6.6M easy at lunchtime, then this evening was a mamma-jamma of a tempo run I completely made up the other day! 16 miles total incl. 10 miles on the track, alternating 1 mile @ MP and 800m @ threshold. I worked out target splits to be 5:48 and 2:42 but had no idea how that would pan out. Being a bit OCD I started 93 metres behind the start line for the first rep to get a true 10 mile time. It went like this:

6:15 (1693m)
2:44, 5:50
2:43, 5:49
2:42, 5:50
2:43, 5:47
2:41, 5:48
2:43, 5:44

10 miles: 57:23

So that worked pretty well. Definitely hard enough but doable, with the MP sections coming as welcome relief after the faster laps, but still needing focus.
Edited: 14/08/2014 at 22:11
15/08/2014 at 07:45

Very impressed with everyone knocking out the BAC sessions - they're tough. I'll need to try to do some of them in Feb/March, preferably with some clubmates as I guess they'd be even harder on your own.

PP - very impressive. To be even more OCD you could have marked out each 9.3m (actually you'd need some at 4.65m gaps as well for the 0.5M intervals) so that you were taking splits at each 0.5M and 1M rather than 800m and 1600m. Amateur.

Ran for 46 mins this morning almost all on grass and almost couldn't feel anything wrong with my leg, so I think it's nearly there. Might try the parkrun tomorrow (not full gas) just to see how unfit I am. Also been doing a few turbos over the last few days.

15/08/2014 at 08:56

PP – another great Tuesday.   I think you should start looking for some Tuesday races, it’s clearly your day! ... or maybe Thursday is your day... thats one mother of a session!! You’re in great shape.

Wardi / Lev – great to see you getting back to it.  Both benefitting from getting a few stress free miles under your belt.

ON7 – 6x5mins is a strange session off such short recovery.  I guess it’d be good for just knocking you out of any rhythm which you’d be able to get into if you were doing a single longer tempo run. 

DrD – Great session that.  10miles at that kind of pace is impressive.  What’s your target?

CW – its great how a simple supermarket can be improved by being on holiday!  Lovely fell running – sounds amazing.

Padams – 46 mins ... good progress.  Fingers crossed for tomo.


5k race last night.  After a frustrating 17:16 at the weekend, I managed to knock 50 seconds off that for a 16:26.  That’s better!!  Much more in line with where I thought I was.   

This was my first time doing one of the famous (in Manchester) Sale Sizzlers.  The race has a good deep field (winner got 14:47, I was 26th) and a good fast course (although it was a little muddy and wet in places).


The race starts with 500m round the track before heading out around the park, then finishing with 200m on the track.  The bit on the track was so congested that I actually didn’t manage to start too fast.  There were also quite a few puddles to be contended with in the park and quite a lot of mud for a road race, but the course is definitely a fast one, especially on a dry day.

I stuck into the back of a pack of 7 or 8 for the few km.  Then decided the pace was a tad slower than ideal so spent the rest of the race working my way up to the next small group of about 5.  I managed to pass all of these within the final 1k.

Very pleased with the run - my second fastest ever (after my surprise 16:02 earlier in the summer). Splits were 3:14, 3:20, 3:22, 3:14, 3:14.

I’ve now got 4 weeks to knuckle down to some hard miles in preparation for the winter road/XC season... where did the summer go?

15/08/2014 at 10:05

Bains – speedy 5k! Sounds like you executed purty darned well – good to read the report.

PP – proper sesh, frickin machine! Nice one. Doc – ditto to you. You guys are flying!

ON7 – i would have baulked too off of those recoveries...tough one.

Wardi – welcome back!

Meanwhile at the other end of the spectrum: I seem to have a bit of an issue at the moment: 2 LRs in 2 weeks and bonked badly on both. Last night was supposed to be 24 – steady 8min miling till 19 then planned a pick up towards MP in last 5. Managed 2.5m circa 7:30 pace and absolutely crashed. Stopped the garmin at 22 miles (7:57 ave) and death marched (worse than any marathon) the last 2 back to my car. Busted, on verge of chucking and shivering cold , speech slurring – very annoyed wife ‘you look like death warmed up, why are you killing yourself’ etc etc etc.  I forced drinks and dinner in and started to recover eventually. Odd.

Possible reasons: underlying fatigue from 24hr race 4 weeks ago?? Fatigue from previous days commute double 15 total at 7:25 ave pace.

 Fuelling: lack of any during run (normal for me) and not really proper  meal earlier in day.

Hydration: lack of any during run (normal for me) but possibly not enough before run.

Dare i say to fast?!? Surely 8minute miling is far from too fast for an LR at this stage of the game– but perhaps underlying fatigue playing a part.

Oh well......... I do have  a backing up style LR planned for the morrow morning – i will run slower and with water, a bar or gel and lots of trepidation.

15/08/2014 at 12:11

Tmoth - Thanks!

Thats quite scary stuff when things go wrong like that though.  I personally find that my body doesnt like any long runs for a few weeks after a marathon so I imagine that would be magnified with a 24 hour race!   Its all individual though - I know some people who have successfully raced two lengthy races in a shorter space of time. 

Definitely be careful.  The training means nothing if you dont make it to the start line!

15/08/2014 at 15:52

Dr Dave - nice session, good to see you returning to fitness

bainspj - nice 5K time

Wardi - they must have missed you down your local parkrun!

Tmoth - sounds like it could be an underlying health issue, a virus of some kind maybe.  A few days' rest could help.

PP - That's almost as complicated as one of Charlie's sessions.  OK, count me in for the 5000.  There's a slim chance that my wife may have something on that evening that means I have to miss it, but I won't know until much nearer the time, so we'll assume I'm running. 

16/08/2014 at 10:10

good training there stet and nice end to holiday cw

wardi welcome back glad to see you're slowly getting back to it

pp the backflips were only in the recovery present there are not enough superlatives to describe your training. top top form

bains great 5king and speedy work; nice work to knock nearly a minute off in less than a week! Targets are a difficult place for me at the moment as too many DNS's for me to get overexcited, therefore main one is staying fit; I know if I do whatever happens should be a big pb. Realistically though I'd like to keep the sub 6min/mile so anything sub 2.40 i'd be delighted with

tmoth sure its a little of everything you've said but i'd agree that more than liekly its the 24 hour race still in the system. Thats a heck of a race to recover from unless you're used to knocking out 120-130 mile/weeks. sure it'll come back soon maybe try not the push the LSR the next couple weeks

Edited: 16/08/2014 at 10:11
16/08/2014 at 10:27

Dachs.. Ha!  Funnily enough I've been stuck on 49 Park Runs for a few weeks now so popped down to York this morning to earn a free t-shirt.  20.33 was nearly half a minute quicker than Wednesday's effort on a breezy morning so I will take that as progress.  BTW you recently said you favoured flat parks etc.  If you're ever up this way give it a try - dead flat & very fast.  We've already had such luminaries as Johnny Brownlee, Laura Weightman & Lucy Hall (Team GB Triathlon) trying for fast times not to mention Lord Didsbury & Al P!

A tip for Abbey Dash - if you have a non running helper give them a shirt/fleece to look after for the finish.  Runners tend to congregate for a chat on the Town Hall steps post race and it can be bliddy cold up here in November!

Bains.. cracking 5k, puts me to shame!

Stet.. good to see you on the thread again & some solid training in the bank. 

16/08/2014 at 12:38

Bains - That's more like it! Nicely in line with your interval paces and well executed 5k.

Wardi - Congrats on the parkrun milestone.  Just another 44 to go for me.

Four times on the track in one week for me, another record. My club mate was determined to squeeze in a sub-16 5k pace-specific session before our next joint attempt on Wednesday, so he dreamt up 3 x 2k with 400m walk/jog recovery (about 4 mins) for this morning.  77s laps would give us 6:25, but a faster club mate volunteered to join in and paced us round to 6:21, 6:22, 6:23 (= 15:55 5k pace = both our PBs exactly!)  That's 74 miles in 6 days for me, with a long run to come.  Amazingly, nothing's complaining.  

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