Sub 3

For anyone trying to crack the 3 in any marathon anywhere in the world

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10/08/2016 at 11:39

Hello all

Glad to see everyone seems to be do rather well, in either a running or training capacity. 

Nice to see Toro popping back in. Enjoy Perth. I was lucky enough to visit there once - almost 20 years ago now! Great place though.

ES - great stuff re training and the Half. You seem to be nailing this campaign. Be interesting to see how you do if you can maintain it til race day. Well done!

RB - nice to see you back and glad you had a nice time. 

LMH - superb stuff (and very modest) again! Mind you, given you're a drugs cheat it's hardly surprising. You're not Russian are you? Little Miss Happykov has a nice ring to it. Fantastic stuff though. And I agree with the others - I think you could do pretty well regardless of the race. 

wardi - solid week there fella. Looking good for the Mara!

CD - good stuff. Never been to India but it sounds like you had a good time.

Alan B - fantastic week again (stomach issues aside). I think that's a problem for most (all?) of us on occasions. Good luck trying to sort out what works for you.

padams - hopefully by now everything is sorted, and you've got a little padams to cuddle. Hope everything is ok.

TT - good stuff re Berlin prep. Hopefully you can keep on that track and get a bit of fitness back.

And a cracking weekend from joolska - not a bad run given the mileage you'd already done!


Things still a bit rubbish here, but not too bad. I was struggling with my achilles as I said last week, but then (perhaps more worryingly) my back started playing up again. It seems to come from the back of my ribs and then I get a constant dull ache around my SI joint, and bad nerve pain in my glute/piriformis. And it's often at its worst first thing in the morning. Anyway, said back thing flared up quite bad at the weekend. So I carded zeros for both Sat and Sun. I then rang the osteo and managed to get a cancellation for Mon.

My pelvis was out of line a bit and he re-set me (so to speak), but he did say he thought it would go straight back out as soon as I ran again. Bit of a chat re Berlin, and he said to try and get through that as best I can and then maybe have a re-think re my training. He didn't say to stop running (nothing of the sort), but I perhaps need to mix it up a bit as my body can't seem to cope with the constant 60+ mile a week. I need to do a bit more gym work too - just to get a bit more robust and to try and balance out all the imbalances I've got. So I've since done a couple of gym sessions and I managed a run last night. I did just over 10 miles actually, which included our club session (4 x 1 mile reps off 3 mins). These were on a grass track up at the school. Pretty windy and the track isn't exactly flat, so I was quite pleased with 5'53, 5'32, 5'42 and 5'45. I was working hard but not at 100%, and although my back was tight I was ok. My achilles was fine, so that was a bonus!

I've then been swimming for the first time in ages this morn. I ended up doing 2k in a bit of a pyramid session - lengths of 5, 10, 15, 20, 15, 10 and 5 again to finish. I'm useless and slow, but not to worry - that never stopped me running. Back aches a bit now so will see whether to run, gym or eat pies later. Hoping the x-training helps - I need to do something though. If I carry on as I have been then I may as well pack in, cos my old creaky body can't cope anymore!

10/08/2016 at 12:46

I'm off for a sports massage this afternoon as doing my club session yesterday evening appears to have made my shoulder/neck/back tighten up again and I've got pain (presumably nerve pain) in my right arm.  Sigh.  Hopefully the masseur can loosen off whatever the problem area is!

Sounds like you're still in good shape, LS21 - I'd love to run a mile rep ins 5.32!

Hope all is well chez Padams, but guessing you are pretty busy right now.

12/08/2016 at 10:52



5.32 LS21?  Blimey. 

Enjoy the rubdown Joolska

12/08/2016 at 10:56

Morning all (if there's anyone about, been very quiet for a few days!). Significant AWOL period in these parts from me, due to 7 weeks of work travel and hols. Nice to see LS back on again and going pretty well considering your recent run of injury issues. Hope marathon training is going well for the likes of TTWardi and Joolska (sorry not had time to fully catch up with all the goings-on). Hoping all is well in the Padams household too.

Think I managed about 4 days at home in total amongst all my travels... Upside was that I got to go running in a nice range of places including Edmonton, Calgary, St John's Newfoundland, Isle of Man, Wick (Caithness) and Cornwall. Downside was that my fitness has plummeted, not entirely sure why, I was reasonably consistent with my running and it was all pretty much easy stuff (apart from the odd bonkers football stadium stairs session in Edmonton - Quads did not enjoy). Culminated in a fun trail half in Edmonton, but not my best race by a very long way, only came 4th overall after two guys in front missed a turn and went 4k out their way!

Back home and back on it properly now, I'm in for Abo on 23rd Oct so had 12 weeks to get into some sort of marathon running shape since returning to normality. Plan is 4wks or so of just easy building mileage with the odd hill effort thrown in running around the New Forest. Then I'll add in a couple of medium long steady runs in a week (a la Hadd's approach) to work on raising my LT. This method seemed to work well in the run up to London this year, but was scuppered by a pair of silly injuries (1x icy root slippage & 1x stubborn insistence on completing a long run). So my aim is to get through to Abo injury-free. Supplementing the training with 2xwk gym strength & conditioning as well as 2x20 single leg squats twice a day to try to fend off niggles (and looking out for malicious tree roots!)

Edited: 12/08/2016 at 12:18
13/08/2016 at 13:36

Ha, cheers all. I notice nobody picked up on the 5'53 I did for the first one! Sadly I haven't ran since - my back isn't good at all. I've kipped on the floor for the last 5 nights (much to the delight of my better half) but it hasn't really helped. Berlin is hanging by a thread I think, but not to worry. I think I seriously need to look at my form etc if I want to continue running Marathons, but not sure I do really. Getting a bit fed up of it all of late (probably the working hard to get fit, injury, over-eat and drink too much, get fat and slow, start back again and work hard to get fit, injured etc etc - not overly enjoyable tbh). Will give it some thought though.

Nice to see Al_P popping in - sounds a hectic few weeks!! And good luck with the Abingdon build up

Edited: 13/08/2016 at 13:38
14/08/2016 at 06:15

Sorry to hear that your back is so bad LS21, it took three months total rest followed by months and months of running rehab for me to be able to consistently run more than 35 miles a week without breaking.

12 weeks is plenty Al_P if you can avoid those pesky tree roots.

Just ticked over last week and now need to decide whether to enter another ultra before Abingdon, thinking of the 50 or 100k at Bath on 18th September.

14/08/2016 at 14:29

Fingers crossed for you, LS21.

Welcome back, AlP!

20M for me today to bring up 68M for the week.  Legs were pretty tuckered out after 13M including 10km yesterday.  Managed just over HM pace (6.18m/m: 39.00), so a 29s improvement in 2 weeks.  Gradually clawing my way back into shape: 8 weeks to go!

15/08/2016 at 08:24


LS21 - you know what I think. 

LMH - will your legs be recovered enough from a 100k for Abingdon?  I'd say the 50k with the second half at MP (not knowing the course) as a good workout?  Will there be some decent guys to chase?

Joolska - good training week there, nice!

18M at 7.15s for me yesterday on a lumpy, bumpy, mostly off-road course.  Especially after attending a 100 person BBQ which got a bit out of hand  A 60M week, which is my highest (non-marathon/ultra) training week for some time.  I even did some speedwork this week, which is almost unheard of recently. 


So, question time - the women's 10000m race - clean or not?

15/08/2016 at 09:39

Sorry to hear of your woes LS21, cross training and gym time will hopefully let the problems heal and get the weak points strengthened. You should still be able to keep yourself in decent shape without too much running.

Sounds like some nice travelling Al_P. Good luck with the Abingdon build up.

How's the legs recovering after the ultra LMH

Looks like the massage worked a treat Joolska, nice weekends training.

RB - I saw the post on fb saying they had about 100 bottles of prosecco at the ready for the bbq and could sense it might get a little larey! Nice training week. As for the women's 10,000m, I refrained from posting on your fb status but struggling to believe it was clean. Brilliant weekend of sport otherwise though, some incredible performances from the Team GB athletes, particularly the cyclists. Very enjoyable viewing. Plus moving above China in the medal league table is pretty extraordinary when you consider the difference in scale between countries.

117 miles for me last week, including a hilly 12 mile MLR on Tuesday (6:30's), club 10k trail race (1st) on Thursday and 13 miles at 6:04's on Saturday. Especially pleased with that one as it's faster than my MP at Manchester last year (6:07's) at a lower heart rate (150bpm compared to 157bpm for the first half of the mara) and also because i had abandoned my original plan to do a hard stepping stones session after two crap nights sleep. Finished the week off with 23.5 miles yesterday. Legs are tired but are definitely adapting to the bigger mileage. Another big week planned this week then an easy week before the Glasgow Clyde Marathon on the 28th which I haven't 100% decided if I'm doing yet. If i do it, planning to take it easy but not sure how easy. Got a bit of thinking to do...

15/08/2016 at 09:59

I want to believe the new 10,000m and 400m records are clean, but it's hard to really believe in them, particularly the 10,000m, as the old record was so dodgy.  I know it's a fast track, etc., but still...  Let's see what the sample re-tests show in 2024.

15/08/2016 at 10:03

Al_P - nice round the world running tour!

LS21, healing vibes coming your way.

Jools, a decent week there, and heading in the right direction.

RB - It feels wrong to be suspicious of amazing athletic performances, especially given what we've seen this week. That said, Ayana's time was so fast and yet she looked utterly relaxed which does not look right.

This was a recovery week for me so a mere 58M including a 6x800m session on Tuesday. That's recovery P&D style! The session was shocking being honest, I think I only got under 3 mins for one of the reps. I had to go out early doors to fit it in and I can never seem to get the legs moving quickly at that time of day. The rest of the week was fine though. Of course all the little niggles came out as they always seem to do in recovery weeks.

15/08/2016 at 10:48

LS21 - that's tough! I've been there thinking that things won't settle down, and, tbh, at the moment it all feels like hard work. It does sound like you're struggling with motivation for marathoning though (completely understandable if you think your body is going to break down on a regular basis), so maybe it'd be an idea to target something that excites you more whilst allowing your body to ease into training?
As I've said before I no longer have the motivation to do the fastest marathon I can (set my ultimate target and hit it) anymore so have been working on new targets and have something in mind that is a very (very) long term target but is getting my juices flowing again. Maybe a similar approach will take the pressure off?

Good luck with the Abo build-up Al_P!

Nice improvement Jools!

RB - I was gobsmacked by Ayana, but I'm edging towards clean, partially because I want to believe that it's possible - only her second ever 10k race would point to naivety about how to run it, exacerbated by the Kenyan going out crazily hard. Her debut was 30:1x I think. A 14:12:59 5km pb would put her in that ballpark too (obviously an assumption that that was clean too).
However, the other way of looking at it is that if there's scepticism there, then why none about Adam Peaty breaking his own world record twice in successive nights? Or the fact that the 10000m had 18 outright pb' plus a Masters World Record for Jo Pavey.
If you look at it in percentages, Ayana improved the WR by 0.81%, Peaty by 1.36% (in a shorter distance which is proportionately much harder to do).

Impressive mileage AlanB.

Salisbury Trail 'HM' yesterday (actually ended up running an extra 0.5m due to a long course and poor marshalling in a couple of places. Got lucky and nobody quick turned up so I ended up with a gun-tape win by a little over 8 minutes. Overall time was shockingly poor (1:30:07), but it's a very tough course on a hot day and I'm in poor shape anyway. I put a finger in the air guess when setting training paces at the start of the week that I could probably just about muster a 10km @ 6m/m pace at the moment, putting my HM pace at about 6:08m/m. Looking at the times of some of the other runners it looks like my time would probably equate to possibly scraping a sub-80 on a better course, so about right really.
A few miles before and after made 17m for the day, and 67m for the week.
Nice surprise to see Njord and Caz beforehand too as they happened to be in the area. Good day out.

15/08/2016 at 11:57



AlanB - wow, seriously impressive mileage and some real quality runs in there - saw your win at the Henderson Cup, hardly a surprise


TT - that's the spirit, believe in the honesty of people rather than instantly doubting them.  Innocent until proven guilty.  Funnily enough, I'd worked out those comparative calculations too - I can accept cycling records regularly tumbling due to the improvements in bikes, but when swimming records tumble like dominoes, why do we not question these the way we do with athletics?  Is it because quite often the swimmers are British?  Nice run for a fat lad BTW

15/08/2016 at 12:33

I too was away for a while, 2.5 weeks in the US on holiday, and as my habit is to come here on weekday lunchtimes I have lapsed horribly (and not attempted to read back!).

I did a fair bit of running while away, including 20M round Central Park and 10M barefoot on sand (got some odd blisters on the front of my toes from that). Not huge mileage though as I firstly tapered for and then recovered from a half out in Oregon (2nd place, 78:38 -- which was OK given 1000' vertical, a flight of steps, and a minor marshalling cock-up).

I'm now officially training for the Yorkshire marathon on 9 Oct, so I put in a training marathon yesterday morning (first full-distance run since before I went away), though my legs were rather wooden even before that. I haven't really decided how much to make of this campaign -- I want to make a reasonable effort, but don't expect to hit the same high-mileage weeks as pre-VLM.

16/08/2016 at 06:10

Some good running and racing going on.

No news from Padams yet?

ES - I'm the same with the niggles in lower mileage weeks.

When will you decide about Clyde Alan?

Looks as though it's coming together nicely Joolska.

RB - I ran a comfortable 60 miles last week so I'd say the legs are doing well. Was intending to pick it up a bit this week but I either have a low level virus or it's residual fatigue (I guess the latter) as I ran a good 20 on Sunday but was tiring yesterday so stopped at 14. Looks as though Bath is off (for domestic reasons) so need to decide what if anything to do between now and Abingdon. Have a 10k on the Bank Holiday weekend but not expecting great things there.

16/08/2016 at 12:31

LMH - I'll probably decide on the day before. Then change my mind another half dozen times through the night and then end up doing it anyway.  

17/08/2016 at 13:49



LMH - if you can't find a race of suitable distance, you could just do a super-long training run?  Have you looked at the LDWA stuff, many of their events allow runners.

Alan - stop faffing about and just bloody smash it!  Podium spot at least.  Although with 8 road crossings, just be careful when sub6min/miling at them

Easy 6miles this am with 20min fartlek (1min hard, 1min easy), with efforts averaging below 5min/mile pace.

17/08/2016 at 15:23

Sub-5'00 pace? You need a new Garmin son - that one you've got is clearly faulty

17/08/2016 at 16:45


Absolutely correct LS21, I should have been faster than that

17/08/2016 at 17:55

RB - I wouldn't do the LDWA stuff as I can't be faffed to navigate if I'm running. I don't need a long run/race just fancied it as something to do between now and Abingdon.

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