Sub 3:15 - FLM 2009

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04/12/2010 at 21:14
knight rider wrote (see)
Lorenzo - Do you ever have a ie in to a normal time of the morning?

I guess it all depends on what your definition of normal is.

I'm following Poacher's advice of needing to be able to run when tired and also trying to get plenty of miles in my legs between now and mid January, so I guess I'm not having many lie ins. Elder Lorenzito's rugby has been called off tomorrow so I have a bit of extra time and might not set the alarm until 5.30!

Come the spring, I'll be putting more emphasis on getting the zzz's in.

Warmer and a bit of rain here as well, so will be interesting to see what the conditions are like tomorrow morning.

04/12/2010 at 21:21

 Keir - Thanks for the Tour link.  I'll certainly not push it that far!

My computer has died and gone to the hospital so I have downloaded all my history onto another computer.  Unfortunately, it will only produce graphs for the last few weeks, so I only have splits to go on.  Generally,  the high readings come near the end of a longish run when I've speeded up and really pushing it to the end.

For example:  an off road run of 6 miles where the first 4 were mostly uphill these where the splits:

Mile 1:  Av pace: 11.24  MHR: 164  

Mile 2:  Av pace: 9.14   MHR: 162

Mile 1:  Av pace: 11.46  MHR: 172

Mile 1:  Av pace: 10.11  MHR: 149

Mile 1:  Av pace:   7.39  MHR: 187

Mile 1:  Av pace:  7.24  MHR: 193

I also have a graph for a 1.67mile run I did, literally a quickie around the block, and I'm pretty much in the 180s for most of that. 

04/12/2010 at 21:30

Minni - Looks like you are a chip off Matchstick Man's block with your fascination for data, graphs, Heart rates, average pace, more more more…

Lorenzo - Running when tired is one thing, and running while still asleep is another!

04/12/2010 at 22:02

Certainly Heart Rate is a personal thing and not cannot be compared from person to person. Which is why the 220 - age is useless. I am 36 and reckon my max is about 195, but I have a very low resting pulse, below 40 when fit, has been down to 36. I know many people who have a much lower max pulse than me yet are much fitter and faster.

Looking at your splits Minni they look credible. I think you need a 1/2 hr warm up and then repeat the hill session another time, maybe on a warmer day when your feeling a bit fresher?

05/12/2010 at 08:48
I've given up on HR training partly because I can't work out what max is - and mainly because Garmin seem incapable of making a HR strap that works for more than three or four months. I've now had three that leap to stupidly high readings mid-run - not a poor contact spike at the start, just a jump to a mile of 235+ bpm. Buggers up the average and gives you no idea what's actually happening.

No running for me yesterday - may venture out pre-sledging for a few miles as the roads look fairly clear now, althoughh it's back to being very cold again.
05/12/2010 at 09:33

TAR - msg sent. But Anne Robinson? She stopped me once to ask for directions - scary. However she is said to have a heart of gold.

Minni - using that 220 minus age formula is like doing brain surgery with oven gloves, it's better to test it yourself.   Mine also reaches the 190's and I am older than you, nothing to fret about.

Good point about using the dreadie to practice even pacing.  How about trying a split LR - say  12-15m outside, ending at the gym to nip inside for another 6-8m on the dreadie at a faster pace. Result - a very tough progressive run in which you really do have to push it towards the end.

Any mention of "tracks by the farm" will have Gul coming along to run round them in circles...

Lorenzo - good stuff.  The trick is to get miles under the belt without really noticing tiredness or the time.  BTW it's definitely worth a close look at the TT maps, there are a few places to go wrong, you have to cross the Thames at the right places and there are some short diversions away from the towpath. Plus right near the end between Reading and Henley there are confusing bits.

35m this week in the snow, a few more today will make it a decent if unspectacular entry in the diary. 

05/12/2010 at 10:21

Knight Rider -  I'm obsessive about data!  I've spend the last two weeks reading and planning my P&D schedule.  I have charts and notes everywhere.  The only thing missing is my HR information! 

I've been out this morning for a 6 mile run.  1sr mile MHR 191, 2nd 187, 3rd 150, 4th 162, 5th 169, 6th 142.

Miles 1 & 2, 5 & 6  were on black road but 3 & 4 were on snow and ice. During the 5th mile I did 3 x 500m to try to push the HR as high as possible and it only reached 169! Yet the first two miles were really high.   Its very cold still (below freezing). 

I've no idea what to set my heart rate percentages at!

05/12/2010 at 11:08
Minni: Good luck on getting the max HR, I found I could get mine after the fifth time sprinting up a big hill, was nearly sick afterwards though!

Regents Park 10K for me this morning (one of the fabled forum heads to heads! This one with G.E)

Not a great time, course was ok, bit slippy in places but fine, came in with 40:29 (was aiming for sub 40), my legs just didn't want to know today, ho hum.

Going to try something radical in my training (for me, anyways), will be asking the forums collective wisdom later!

Hope everyone can get out there today, cold, but a lovely day!
Edited: 05/12/2010 at 11:13
05/12/2010 at 11:30

Steve - I wouldn't worry too much about this morning. Suspect that the conditions didn't help things out there. Look forward to getting the report from GE - he's been conspicuous by his absence here.

Poacher- cheers. The maps look a bit more robust that the ones we got for the C2C last year which fell apart after about 10 miles. Luckily I had downloaded the route onto my Garmin and hope to do the same again for the TT.

Second long run of the weekend for me this morning - I had allowed myself the luxury of a lie-in until 6.00 but was soon as sploshing through the snowmelt. Just over 18 miles over to Leith Hill (see link for interesting story behind the tower on the top!) and back - rather knackering if the truth be told.

Leith Hill tower

05/12/2010 at 11:56

Cold again here, so decided against battling the slippy roads and went for a shortish one over Embsay Crag.  Lovely and clear, so took the camera (just for Keir!).  This is my objective, the towering leviathan that broods over the village:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2SSm7395J2U/TPt7aJDaCqI/AAAAAAAAAcA/y1uNbFVhj-4/s1600/IMG_0001.jpg

 Going over the crag the short way is steep from the start, and the snow was deepish in a few places, necessitating a bit of walking, but once on the open fellside it became runnable: 
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2SSm7395J2U/TPt7bewWnkI/AAAAAAAAAcI/ULDYzTUVIG0/s1600/IMG_0003.jpg

 Met a few people on the way round and stopped for a few pictures on the top.  
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2SSm7395J2U/TPt7b_r9PQI/AAAAAAAAAcM/WXC117ONqHI/s1600/IMG_0004.jpg

 A lovely 4ish miles with about 800' of ascent - pace irrelevant, and very enjoyable.  However I think I'm going to have to get some more mileage in before the year is out as it all kicks off in January...   
05/12/2010 at 11:56
I hereby submit my entries for shortest and slowest pace long run of the weekend: 10 miles at avg pace of 10.20!

The snow was fresh and over a foot deep in places. Going down hill was hilarious, going uphill was impossible. I suspect the half mile long hill was over 20 min miling. Good fun though.
05/12/2010 at 12:36
AfE - looks glorious, and blue skies as well! Very envious.
05/12/2010 at 12:38


Keir wrote (see)

RJ, what events have you got coming up over the next few months?


Not sure yet. My aim for today is to plan the next 4 and a bit months training and that will include picking the races I intend to do.

So far I am booked in for the Brass Monkey Half in January but may not do it as it'll mean a trek up north and I'm already going back home to Harroagte for Christmas.

I will probably do Paddock Wood half as my MP decider (within a 22) at the end of March though. And possibly Sidcup 10. I also need to find a 20 +race, so I can do 26.2 in training (it'll be a slow one though).

Good graphage SBD. I have recreated the same thing.

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/191313/gallery/abo_build_up.png?width=350&height=210&mode=max



 What this shows is that the 'quickest week' was still over 60secs slower than what MP ultimately was.The bars are weekly mileage (with totals on the left y axis) and the blue line is avge pace.

Nice running from all of you. I'm doing naff all to be frank, I tried to get back into it on Monday with a 6 miler which was fine, but then the snow really did me in for the rest of the week and CBA came calling. This is all to change tomorrow, with the snow disappearing I really have no excuse and 19 weeks is plenty to get me into a good position come 17th April. I'll be aiming for roughly 50 this week.

Edited: 05/12/2010 at 12:39
05/12/2010 at 13:31

Interesting to see your Abingdon data RJ - remarkably similar in structure to mine apart from an extra 15 miles per week and 45 secs/mile difference in pace  Gives me faith I was doing the right thing and that there is room for improvement 

Sounds fun Speedy - there'll be time for serious training later

Lovely views Andy and sounds like a great run.

Good mileage Lorenzo in what sounds like tough conditions.

A good run nontheless Steve - good speed to take in to the marathon campaign.

Minni - Are you able to see the whole HR data rather just the maximum interval values?  If so, perhaps you should try a HAD style test on a track or similar flat circuit or even a treadmill.  So 2mins at a HR of 130, 2 mins at 140, .... and then once you feel you can't go any faster 2 mins flat out.  I'm a bit worried your HR is spiking, so if you do a test like this you would hopefully eliminate this as a factor.  You would also get a correlation between your pace and HR which would be useful for deciding on training zones etc.

14 miles for me this morning.  Yesterday's rain got rid of practically all the snow so just a few patches of moderately icy stuff to contend with and some misty fog.  Still nursing my right ankle a little bit so just settled for the 14 at an average pace of 7:45 m/m to give me 44 miles for the week.  Only a week left before the P&D VLM schedule kicks in so need to ramp the miles up next week.

Edited: 05/12/2010 at 13:35
05/12/2010 at 17:05

Aaaaaargh!

Just realised that VLM 11 is right in the middle of the Easter holidays and we're planning on going away for a week. The only option (if I want to still be able to do VLM) is to head somewhere on the 18th and then back on the Easter Monday which of course starts to push the price up if we want to fly anywhere.

Bother.

05/12/2010 at 17:23
The Easter hols start 2 weeks before Easter? Madness!
05/12/2010 at 17:26
Think it's because Easter is so late this year! Add the Friday Bank Holiday at the end of April and the May Bank Holiday at the beginning of the following week and it's all a bit mad.
05/12/2010 at 17:27

Andy Nice photos, sometimes it is good to get out, just to get out.

Speedy Perversely it sounds like you enjoyed it. Better than being in bed coughing I would imagine.

Steve Nice time. I think if the run/weather place doesn't feel right the legs know it first.

Lorenzo Good solid miles as always.

I am not happy with this slagging of  The Farm and Anne (God bless her) Robinson, am I sensing some anti Liverpool agenda here? Or am I just being sensitive as due to the weather today it was necessary to wear a shell suit top.

16 for me today.
Plan was 6 steady then 10 at PMP. Didn't work like this.
I managed 6 steady, 7 at PMP and then 3 at PMP +6%. The last 3 miles I put down to the fun of the last week spent on the toilet and the fact the last 7 miles were straight into a strong headwind, with the last 4 miles the strongest of the lot. I was struggling with the pace from the second mile, so to keep it going for another 5 was good.

My av HR for the 7 miles at PMP was 2% lower than when I ran 8 miles at PMP 3 weeks ago, so hopefully this shows I am improving, just the virus in the system caught up after 100 mins of running.

05/12/2010 at 19:52

Nice stats there RJ. Looks like textbook progression. It also explains why I was so much slower than you - my highest mileage week as no where near your easiest week! I am aiming for a fast HM at Paddock Wood. When's the Sidcup 10 and what is the course like?

Minni - Something very strange is happening with your readings. Why don't you abandon heart rate and run to pace instead? After all, it is pace which you will need to run to in the actual marathon to achieve target time.

Andy - Cheers for the pictures. I am sure you have been told this before, but you have a beautiful Crag.

Nice runs from Scooby and Lorenzo.

Steve, you've been training pretty hard and the legs are probably not that fresh. Also very hard to get them going in the cold. Still a respectable time.

Up there with you for the weekly mileage SBD. 47 in total for me. One advantage of the 10 mile race being cancelled is that I have got 2 longish runs in. Did 15m today in 1hr57m. 7.47 pace, which considering it was hilly I am pleased and surprised at. I decided to go for a hilly run over the North Downs, but a lot more snow still up there. Although roads were clear of it, there was a lot of road flooding, meaning detours over fields and along verges. Had to turn back and alter the route when I reached a 100m road flood with no obvious way round. Soggy feet by the time I got home as well.

edited due to spelling like a monkey

Edited: 05/12/2010 at 19:57
05/12/2010 at 20:06
There's a race horse called Embsay Crag, tha' knows...
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