Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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03/10/2012 at 08:21
knight rider wrote (see)
Nice lunchtime 10 miler PMJ, was it all steady pacing?

Pace was fairly even. Seems to me that if I back off from race pace by about 10% then it feels steady and at the moment the formulas give 64:28 for 10 miles as a race so if I add 10% to that it comes out at 71. If I look at all the miles after 1 warm up, 7 were from 7:03 to 7:14 and then a couple of faster ones in 6:47 and 6:58 but both of those were chasing faster runners: the first one appeared from behind and sped past so I took up chase and was feeling slow until he hit has watch and obviously stopped his fartlek and the second I joined behind him and started to pull him in but he turned off so I could slow down and keep face.

I reckon there should be some augmented reality app that allows you to know what other runners are out doing so you can pick those who you race much more easily.

I see via FB that MartinH is back up and running and doing some very tasty 13.1 mile training runs (1:27 and 1:25) in preparation for Leicester half next weekend. If you apply the same 10% rule to those then it gives something like a 78 half.

Edited: 03/10/2012 at 08:24
03/10/2012 at 08:55

PMJ - nice 10 miler; progress continuing. Good to hear Martin is doing well too.
DM - recovery run sorted!
Moof - good hill training.
Speedy - well done on completing intervals in those conditions. I remember those 200m @ 5k too. I did a set in the week leading up to my 10k but I can't remember what recoveries I did either.
KR - stonking set of reps there - 15x400m!
OOlg - that's a long recovery run.
A very short recovery run for me today (not sure what I'm recovering from to be honest). 2 miles.

03/10/2012 at 12:59
Just had a phone call from the Mortimer 10 race director that I won first male vet in Sundays race and my trophy will be in the post!
Technically, I was third male vet but they finished in the top three and you can't have two trophies but I'm not too worried about these finer details.
My only regret is that I didn't stay to receive my prize and milk it for all its worth.
03/10/2012 at 13:19

Speedy, just dug out the training schedule from Paris and you are right about the session being 200's. To make it less confusing after finishing a 200 I turned round and just jogged back up the 100m straight a bit, turned back to the start line and off again. Session looked like this:

1M jog, then 12 x 200m in approx 40 seconds with 20 seconds jog recoveries
(start every 60 seconds), then 1M marathon pace then 1M jog (5M)

I do remember the 1 mile at MP at the end felt oddly hard to keep a lid on!

Good range of mile splits and faster ones too PMJ. I like reeling in other runners too as it gives a bit of incentive. I think (and hope) Martin will get a good time in the Leicester half as he has been doing some good training recently.

Congrats on the gong Moof!


03/10/2012 at 15:30

Hello everyone,

Haven't been posting on here recently as I went to England to celebrate my birthday and squeeze in a Parkrun debut - great to catch up with Jezza, although I drank the cup of tea I got for you after the race, mate.

I then started back at work, always a traumatic time after three months off. And then my dodgy knee has been playing up, to the point where I had to stop after eight miles on Sunday as it was agony. Lots of ice and Iboprofun since has calmed the beast, and a 4-mile test run (you know, those test runs which are such a terrible idea and yet who can stop themselves doing them?) this morning was successful enough for me to still see a future with some kind of running involved.

I hope Speedy's pre-Munich preparations are going to plan, and that everyone is fit and well. I promise to pay more attention from now on. Honest.

Btw I bought some (green) Brooks Ghost 4s in England, my first time with this brand. I think they set off my knee-knack, but am confident this is just a temporary settling-in period...

03/10/2012 at 17:05
Sounds like the legs are returning PMJ

Great news on the trophy Moof! Organise your own awards ceremony at home.

Ola Ant, good to have you back - I have those green Ghosts too. I love em. Hope the knee sorts itself.

Good news about the purple one
03/10/2012 at 20:07

Congrats Moof, always nice to win something whatever the circumstances. I haven't won a sausage for ages.3rd V45 in Redcar but they decided to have 10 year age bands and I can't beat the best guys 10 years younger    

03/10/2012 at 21:45
knight rider wrote (see)

Speedy, just dug out the training schedule from Paris and you are right about the session being 200's. To make it less confusing after finishing a 200 I turned round and just jogged back up the 100m straight a bit, turned back to the start line and off again. Session looked like this:

1M jog, then 12 x 200m in approx 40 seconds with 20 seconds jog recoveries
(start every 60 seconds), then 1M marathon pace then 1M jog (5M)

I do remember the 1 mile at MP at the end felt oddly hard to keep a lid on!

12 x 200m? In race week? Hmmm. I don't have a track to run them on either so would have to program the Garmin. 

Nice to see you back posting Ant, I hope your knee is just one of those random things. 

Congrats on the prize Moof, we'll need a photo once you have it of course. 

04/10/2012 at 06:36

Moof - well done on the trophy; we expect a picture of course, as Speedy says.
Although I haven't listened to it yet, I see from the notes for this week's Marathon Talk that a certain thread member has been having a rant. Which reminds me, welcome back Ant; hope the knee is OK. I've had a couple of pairs of Brook's Ravenna shoes and they were very nice.
5 steady miles banked this morning..

04/10/2012 at 09:00

Gul - you seem very good at these early mornings. I've got 5 easy miles to do today

Moof - congratulations on the win

PMJ - glad to hear that things are falling back into place

Things going OK here, only half a week into the taper and already showing all the signs expected of taper madenss, had to control myself a bit to stop yesterdays 12 miler becoming a bit more ambitious than it was supposed to be, the strong headwind helped curb my enthusiasm shortly after leaving too.

Been thinking about what to do next, and am probably going to aim for a spring marathon. Was planning on taking a month or so for rehab essentially, with a lot of easy miles, then build up to a pretty high millage for a bit over the winter before getting a bit more marathon specific come Feb. Nothing ground breaking, but came up with the following queries:

Is there any benefit/detrement to running an ultra in marathon preperation?

How long after a marathon is it sensible to have a go at a half marathon PB? 2 weeks?

04/10/2012 at 10:09

Moof - congratulations on the trophy

Is it just me or is P&D taper a bit too intense? They had me run  5x600m on Tuesday (from which I've still not recovered), 5mile 'race' on Saturday (which I'll do as a solo time trial on Friday) and then 3x1600m next Wednesday.  I suppose 10 days out is still enough time to recover fully from that hard session.  Keep the faith I suppose and just get on with it.

04/10/2012 at 10:23

JD3 - interesting question about the ultra as a prep for a marathon.  I think it depends on the distance and severity of the ultra and your goal for your marathon.

After a hard ultra, the recovery period can be substantial (several weeks +) then you are not able to dedicate yourself to more specific training in the recovery period after the ultra.  Nett result is a slower marathon.

What you would gain from a ultra is primarily improved endurance but also mental strength, e.g. the last 3 hours of an ultra will be considerably mentally harder than a circa 3 hour marathon if you have a high level of fatigue.  Then marathons becaome mentally 'easier' as your frame of reference changed.

If your out and out goal for the marathon is to run as fast as possible, then running an ultra is not specific enough.  If you want to do it more for fun then I would suggest to limit it to 50km at easy pace as a VLSR.  Of course you can also run slow marathons in preparation for fast marathons as a 'supported training run'

04/10/2012 at 10:27

JD3 - imo a properly raced marathon would leave you no chance of a half PB attempt after 2 weeks.

04/10/2012 at 11:34
Agree with Birch, I'd leave it 4-6 weeks

1 week off
1 week of very light running
3 weeks of faster work then a week taper

There is a rule of thumb of one day per mile raced to fully recover, and then you'd want to get a bit of specific work in

Ultras? No idea although would like to find out - BikeIt's response looks very sensible
04/10/2012 at 12:56
JD3- with you on the taper madness. Did the same 12 as you last night and ended up running 6 at MP. I know wrong but just couldn't control myself. Used a HR monitor and HR at MP miles was at bottom of range in PD, so quite pleased with that. I will definitely ease off on the 17 this Sunday and 13 next Sunday though, promised myself. Probably replace Saturdays tune up race with an aerobic pace run.

I also want to have a crack at a half following marathon to see if I can crack the 1.20 on the back of newly gained endurance!
04/10/2012 at 21:38

Bike It - I'm not doing P&D but my own taper schedule had me doing 6 x 0.55 miles on Tuesday and 11 miles last night. I'm 10 days out from my marathon. Last week, ie 3 weeks out, I did 6 x 0.9 mile efforts, 14 with 10 @ MP, 14 mile MLR and 18 mile LSR. Not much different to a normal week just considerably fewer easier miles. The taper is all about keeping the consistency and intensity while lowering the volume. 

04/10/2012 at 21:40
Nice one Moof! They all count.

Welcome back Ant, the Ghost 4 is an OK shoe, sorry they don't come in orange.

JD - Bike It is spot on. Even for an experienced mara runner, the recovery from an ultra is likely to be a good deal longer. What to do depends on what the A target is...maras can hardly fail to be useful training for ultras, but ultras may derail training for a fast mara attempt. IMO beyond a certain point, mara and ultra are different sports with a different mindset.

The wild card is that once you enter the ultra world, you might be having so much fun that a mere 26.2 seems a bit mundane. Just don't expect anyone you know to understand.

Track tonight, put in a few 6.0X miles, need to make it count at the end of the month.
04/10/2012 at 22:12

Poacher - Green is the new orange.

Bike It - I also thought that P&D's recommended taper was a bit hectic, but then some years I have tapered so enthusiastically that I've stood on the start line not able to remember running very far or hard at all.


Edited: 04/10/2012 at 22:13
04/10/2012 at 23:32

Speedy, just find a nice 200m suburban road to do the reps on using

Still don't know how you get so early Gul. I think you are getting up as I am going to bed?

JD3 - I would agree with BIrch & Sloakey. I'd leave at least 4 weeks before doing a half after a marathon if you want to give it a good go.

10 miles last night in 72.0x and 8 miles tonight in 56.13. Looking forward to taper week next week!

05/10/2012 at 06:45

DM / JD3 - try and hold back for now; if you're chomping at the bit already, just think how good you're going to feel come race day after 3 weeks of tapering!
KR - what sort of mileage have you been doing in this campaign? I was out extra early yesterday (4:40?) as I had to give my brother a lift to the railway station at 5:30, then I did some stretching, set up the furniture for cafe at the Church and went to Tesco's to buy some pies for that evening's meal and then came home and posted here. This morning I had a lie-in as the only extra job I had to do (i.e. other than shower, breakfast, packed lunches etc..) was walk the in-law's dog. And I did...
2 slow recovery miles.

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