Sub 3h15

Oh blimey - I know nothing! Guess that's why I am on here - to learn. Thanks for all of your input. I'm sure it will all make some kind of sense sooner or later.

Lunchtime Runner - Do I ever get to run faster?

I assume that a fair amount of MP running will hit the schedule at some point. In my earlier years running everything was done at a decent pace. I guess it was only my age at the time and many years of fastish training that stopped me getting injured. I'm just finding it hard to accept things are different now.

I think I should probably join a club again. Group training would help. it's just with three kids it's hard to see that I would manage group sessions. Although I have to do nearly all my running alone it does enable me to fit it around my life and causes little or no friction with the OH!

Speedy - I had been thinking about fitting the MLR next to a faster session (ie intervals). That's the main reason I hadn't used a midweek MLR in the past. Everything I have read on here suggests it to be one of the main reasons for big improvements so I'm keen to accomodate it.

DS2 - to add to what others have said, if you're going to follow P&D a lot of the benefits will come from the mileage and structure of the program.  Other than the tempo, MP and race work-outs, the pace you run the other workouts is not that critical.  It's better to undercook the pace and stay injury free.  I've trained for 3 marathons using P&D - the best result came from the campaign where I had the fewest injury problems and missed sessions even though I often struggled to run the faster paced sessions at the 'required' pace.

Keir - I think I must have cut out the section on Core Exercises by mistake ..

Great day here for a run outside but as I'm unable to escape until later when it's dark I think I may have to hop on to the treadmill again 

Gul - very sorry to hear your news. My thoughts you and the family. I'm sure you'll be bust supporting those around you, but don't forget about looking after yourself as well.

DS2, actually I don't know all that much, and am quite inexperienced compared to most here. But I have been main-lining P&D recently. It does feel like all this slow running is enabling me to start to increase my mileage without getting injured (I'm kind of aiming for the endurance phase of the sub 55m 18-week plan, which allows tempo runs every other week). I've never tried properly slow recovery runs before - but they seem to be working for me in managing any niggles. So far.

SBD, I don't like the dark either. 2 hours on the treadmill planned for tomorrow after work. I've just switched to running my long runs midweek, with MLR of 10+ in my usual slot on sunday, for family-life-compatibility reasons.

LR - It seems everyone knows more than me despite the fact I ran my first marathon in 1986! I'm not sure whether there is any benefit in doing planned recovery runs as gentle spins on the bike instead. I was intending to do that but now that I'm getting back into my running I'm enjoying the running more. Having said that, I am cycling LEJOG next August (10 days) so wanted to keep a bit of my cycling legs through the winter.

2 hours on the treadmill - I hope you have something good to listen to/watch!

DS2 wrote (see)

Oh blimey - I know nothing! Guess that's why I am on here - to learn. Thanks for all of your input. I'm sure it will all make some kind of sense sooner or later.

Lunchtime Runner - Do I ever get to run faster?

I assume that a fair amount of MP running will hit the schedule at some point. In my earlier years running everything was done at a decent pace. I guess it was only my age at the time and many years of fastish training that stopped me getting injured. I'm just finding it hard to accept things are different now.

I ran my first in 85 and I don't expect I am the longest server by a long way. The hardest thing here is really getting MP set right. Once MP is right then MP will feel hard and fast, MP+10% feels like you are pushing it and MP+20% feels OKish. If you push for 16 weeks or more with all your runs at MP then either you will break down or you have set MP too low.

DS2 said"It seems everyone knows more than me despite the fact I ran my first marathon in 1986! "
Same here DS2  . . (first mara 1986). . . .

"2 hours on the treadmill - I hope you have something good to listen to/watch!"

Nope. . I'm usually quite happy to watch the clouds float past - the view is Ok from my gym: the odd tree, some open water, people milling about. But at night there is just darkness and random reflections of other people (window panes are at an angle). But, to be honest, unlike most people, I don't find treadmills any kind of a problem: it's either good thinking time or I just daydream. I find it quite (mentally) relaxing.

PMJ,  interesting and helpful to see your comments on how the paces feel. That fits quite well with my recent (limited) experience. A few weeks ago, I fondly imagined that MP pace was a doddle, but now that I'm lengthening my long runs, it now looks quite hard! 

There's a lot of new folks and a lot of folks itching to get training for Spring marathons on here.

SL and Marigold both ran ~2:30 following PnD as stated, so theres no need to add miles to long runs as some folks like to, Mr's P and D wrote plans as a whole, if I was to follow them then I'd commit to it and try to do it as stated too. BUT............PnD have some tough runs and paces, and no rest days (certainly in the longer ones anyway). Now its important to remember that you dont have to complete 100% of the plan and some days you wont be able to run the miles or paces asked for, some days life gets in the way and some days you are simply tired so a rest day is ok, or an easy few miles instead.
There is no such thing as a perfect campaign or a perfect race day, you have to make the best of both around the cards you get given. Consistency is key, and its not about how hard you can train in the build up, its about gettting as much of the build up completed as possible whilst still getting to the start line with enough matches left in your match box to do yourself justice on the day, how fast you could run in training counts for nothing if you are smoked by race day. (I started doing a lot better when I realised this).

Now is the best time of year to kick back for a few weeks, esp the folks that have just completed a marathon. Being too keen too early isnt ideal.

Sorry to hear your news Gul.  Take Care

Of course TR is right about the consistancy.  I've been benched more than most and mostly it was down to enthusiasm not matching my ability to absorb the training.  Last campaign was to P&D, but I had easy miles in the middle of tempo runs, extended recovery on intervals, even a sit down on an LSR.  Always the toughest sessions for me were MLRs after tempo/interval sessions.  The recovery runs are also tougher than expected  as your still recovering from the tough session.

I think I may have got it! I need to slow down if I don't want to get injured. I will do my best but thanks for your guidance, especially the forthright stuff like that from TR. Sometimes I need things spelt out for me!

PMJ - you must have been young when you ran your first one. I was just 22 in 86 and I recollect that you are a year or two younger than me.

Dylan Man - made me laugh reading about your father & also think back to those times. I ran my first one in Paris and there were only about 4 or 5 drink stations serving cups of water (obviously). I don't think energy drinks had been invented. When I ran my PB in 1994 not much had changed. I sometimes wonder if I'm overthinking things but then remember I'm nearly 20 years older so need to be more careful.

Minni - I think that has been my problem with MLR's up to now. Wasn't sure of the point of them. However, I will follow the wisdom on here and accept P&D know what they are talking about and follow the plans as they are but remembering to listen to my body and take extra rest if it's needed.

I've been deliberately enthusing myself because I feel that this will be my last chance to make myself a decent runner again. However, there's a long way to go before my race day so I'd better temper it a little.

Thanks evceryone for your input/advice!

Consistently Consistent Sub 3:15 Race List...

.... is now out of date!  MsE is the last on the list and not doing that marathon.  I've added another sheet but I know some struggled to access it from various devices.  Do we need a new list on here or do you want to use the sheet?

Wise words as always TR. Not just physical but I think mental burnout is a big risk from being too keen at this stage.

1986 - The year I started secondary school. I suddenly feel young again 

My dad's first and only marathon was in 1982. I remember running the final 200m with him. He had a sprint against 1 other guy and managed to beat him, so finished last but 1! He completed it in 6hr 23min, which gave me the motivation I needed to do my first in under 3hr11m30sec!

Having followed Drs advice for 1 week, I couldn't hold on for 1 more and tried out the treadmill for 1hr. Boring, but god, it feels good to be running again. 

DS2 - not specifically aimed at you, just a general thing having read a few comments about PnD, paces, MLRs, and folks itching to get going. Once marathons become part of your daily life and you bag your sessions, go to work and forget about them then you start saving a lot of mental energy. Just bag sessions and save the worry over race day until the last few days.