Sub 3h15

PMJ - very true, but Ron Hill has run every day for about 300 years!!! It's a good point though, if my memory serves me right the great DEEK was considered the most consistent marathoner because he ran world class times over a longer period. Not sure what it was but maybe 5 or 6??? Certainly not the 8 or 10 they are looking at now. I still find it a huge disappointment that Britain can't produce an absolute top level one, especially this year with the Olympics here. I guess when Mo makes the move up it will raise our excitement level.

Should have added that I actually never follow a schedule myself, so if folks dont want to then thats fine. I was just spouting my observations re PnD and trying to stay fresh. If I was to follow a plan then I would use PnD, but I have to include Bike and Swim too and fit my training in around all the other stuff I'm involved in so I dodnt wnat a schedule telling me what I should be doing. And FWIW my MP usually ends up around 6:30 ish and I run lots of slow miles in marathon build up.

Talking of the old days, theres a lad at my youngests school that played in my cricket team for a season and is involved in local teams etc I was talking to his grandad the other day (who I know was an international) and the grandad was telling me how he used to run up the hill I run up and do intervals on the local roads etc now he was 1:47 for 800m good over 50 years ago and if it was good enough for him..........Made me smile when he politely said that if you can run sub3 then you are a proper athlete, I was thinking more that if you could run 800m that quick back then you are a proper athlete.

Bike It wrote (see)

Minni wrote (see)

If the recovery runs are tough then are you running them too fast? 

I sort of changed my perspective on recovery runs.  Instead of thinking of them as runs to help me get recovered, I think of them as training runs to learn how to run on tired legs.  Maybe I should question if I am running the hard sessions the day before too hard as always the next day my legs are pretty tired.

From a phsiological perspective, I think it is about recruiting additional muscle fibres into action - I think it works by the regularly used muscle fibres being exhausted and able to deliver a lot less than if rested.  The body has no choice but to recruit the lesser used muscle fibres.  Well that's my theory anyway.

I actually think that and MLRs the day after a speed session (typical of the P&D schedule) is one of the most valuable sessions to improve efficiency and hence aerobic speed.

Here is a good piece on recovery.  P&D has some quite long recovery runs 5-6 miles if I remember rightly.  My recovery runs are all around 3 miles although I have been known to do two in a day.

Here is a piece on muscle fibre recruitment, which I don't understand so if anyone can explain it in simple terms....?

Minni - muscle recruitment? I'll try.....!

Put a Ferrari alongside an Astra. Empty fuel tanks and put back a gallon in each - now tell the drivers to go as far as they can. Which one will go the furthest?

Which one are you?

What the article is getting at is how we can train each type of muscle fibre to act economically (Astra) even if they start out fast (Ferrari). So on long slow runs when layer 1-5 (in the example), conk out we can call on 6, 7 and so on.

Now here's the trick - if we push too hard then 6, 7 etc never develop the Astra charactersitics but stay as a Ferrari (by robbing fuel - glycogen). We don't notice,

We arrive at mile 18 feeling brilliant, but in fact by mile 21 we're dead because fibres 6 etc were never properly converted....and by then it is too late of course. Gobble all the gels you like at that stage and the Ferrari muscles will just suck it up.

Solution: long slow miles early in training to wean the Ferrari fibres off glycogen and adapted to economic, fat burning for as long as possible.

Now read the article again please, to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree! 

Mike Sheridan- Thanks for that, I'm off for another look. Hopefully this time I won't lose the will to live.

Astra's are good for marathons - you'd beat a certain Mr Bolt for sure.

Mike Sheridan wrote (see)

Now read the article again please, to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree! 

Surely that should be: "Now read the article again please, to make sure I'm not parking in the wrong forecourt!"

Do I have to read it too? It sounds dull....

Have just signed up for the Loughborough Half Marathon in March and the St Valentine's 30k in February. Oh, and the Great North on a deferral in September. It's probably a good job entries aren't open yet for the Rushcliffe 10k or the Ashby 20 as I think I've spent more than my allowance for this month! 

Still only signed up for one race so may as well add it to the list ...

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7.15
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7.15
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3.10

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7.15
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Minni Sub 3:15
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3.10

Thanks for all your best wishes, guys. It really means a lot to me. My dad is still in hospital; talking through the possibilities of palliative home care with Macmillan and family.
I've enjoyed reading all the posts on LSR/MLR/GA paces etc...
Mike S - Like the Ferrari/Astra analogy. I'm probably more of a Lada at the moment. I'm currently squeezing the toothpaste from the bottom of the tube, as Hadd puts it, and running 85% of my mileage somwhere between 8:30-9:15 m/m.

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7.15
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - Lorenzo sub 3:10
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Minni Sub 3:15
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3.10

Will hopefully manage a few shorter trail runs over the winter, but the goal will be enjoyment!

4.5 miles this morning with a fast(ish) burst in the middle.

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7.15
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Minni Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Freemers Sub 3.20
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3.10

I'm definitely an Astra. I don't think I have any fast twitch muscles actually, which explains why my 5k, 10k and 10mile PBs are all pretty much the same pace.

Had a bit of a cold the last few days so not run...feeling much better today so will get out there later. Gearing up for the 7 mile race on Sunday - which will probably be run at the same pace as my 5k, 10k and 10 mile PB's

I'm assuming HMs are allowed, and allowing for some optimism on my part:

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7:15
Mar 17 - Reading HM - Lunchtime sub 1:30
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Minni Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Freemers Sub 3.20
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3:10
May 6 - Milton Keynes - Lunchtime sub 3:15

Oh no, I've been deleted from the list!

Feb 2 - Thames Trot 50 - Poacher sub 7:15
Mar 17 - Reading HM - Lunchtime sub 1:30
April 21 - VLM - Poacher TBA
April 21 - VLM - Lorenzo sub 3:10
April 21 - VLM - SBD Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Minni Sub 3:15
April 21 - VLM - Freemers Sub 3.20
April 28 - Manchester - Knight Rider sub 3:10
May 6 - Milton Keynes - Lunchtime sub 3:15