Sub 3h15

DS2 - exciting stuff; bit of a shock for the wife though!
One Gear - welcome; impressive record there. Please keep posting and don't re-lurk.
I'm planning to run all my best maras in the MV50+ category - that way I can look forward to reaching the big 5-0
A steady 8 miles for me this morning. Back to the really slow stuff for the rest of the week.

Minni wrote (see)

I've just had a look at VLM 2012 results to see how many men/women age 50+ ran sub 3.  There were 69 men (55 of those age 50-54) but in the women there was only 1 and only 15 between the ages of 40 - 49! 

Minni, I think that there is a big distinction between running sub 3 at 50 and running sub 3 for the first time aged 50. On the runbritain rankings there are 94 V50 with sub-3 performances in 2012 but a lot of them have faster times from younger days.

Finding those with no previous marathon experience who broke sub 3 at VLM 2012 shows:

Fred Zalokar 2:37:35 age 51 first timer according to po10 but well known masters runner form USA http://www.all-athletics.com/node/446454

but behind him a lot of impressive runs and PBs but a lot have previous with sub3.

Fastest I find is Colin Ridley: 2:53:50 after 3:00:22 in 2010. This guy sort of fits into the classic mould of middle distance going long in his later years so he is fit but does not have the tiredness in his legs of lots of years running long.

I am told that a minute a year is expected drop off when the drop off starts, so most V40 who can run sub 2:50 can sub 3 at V50. I am 47 and almost 2:50 so am looking to be well within 3:00:00 at VLM 2016.

One Gear - Thanks for the background. It made an interesting read and another huge inspiration in my quest to go Sub-3 again (along with so many on here!). I think, although I try not to dwell on my old PB's because they were such a long time ago, the one advantage it does give me is that I've done it and know what commitment it needs. I have carried on intermitently running but never with anywhere near the same commitment levels. For the first time this year my life will allow it - and so will the wife, Gul - we had a good chat and a laugh about it last night.

I'm definitely stronger at this stage than I've been since 1994 and feel really confident that I'll get to sub 3;15 this year. I suppose my legs aren't overly fatigued either considering most of my marathons since have been run on an average of 3 runs per week!

PMJ - I'm not sure if I really fall in the category of sub 3 previously. It was by some margin I suppose but still a long time ago. Do you have any stats on whether being previously sharpish has any benefits. I've always stuck to the belief it does - but I need to start proving it.

A nice steady 5.77 in 43;11 (7;29 mm average) this morning on a hilly course. A bit quicker than I've been running but wanted to stretch the legs a little. Felt enjoyable even the uphill sections.

PMJ, sorry to hear that you had a relapse in your comback - must be frustrating after the controlled buildup you had. It does sound though, that with the combination of cycling and requests for stats (as thread Statto)  ,that a few weeks will pass by quickly before you are back

DS2 - good luck with the thing we are not talking about

One Gear. Welcome - you seem to have selected thre right gear if you only have the one available to your running engine. Impressive stuff

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Gul Darr - interesting to read your comments on "reaching the big 5-0". In my case doing my first marathon at 50 was to celebrate getting to that age pretty much in one piece. (My father first had cancer in his mid forties and was only given a fifty/fifty chance of survival at the time.)

Also ran  - just to reinforce the "one gear in the gearbox". There is in fact only about 20 secs difference between my 10k race pace and my marathon race pace and when it comes to hills  - don't even go there!

Don't believe that minute a year nonsense PMJ, otherwise I'd be a pack horse by now

DS2 wrote (see)

PMJ - I'm not sure if I really fall in the category of sub 3 previously. It was by some margin I suppose but still a long time ago. Do you have any stats on whether being previously sharpish has any benefits. I've always stuck to the belief it does - but I need to start proving it.

Not really. There is anecdotal evidence to support both camps. Noakes says a few times that the masters records are held by people who come to the sport at a late age with no previous involvement and yet you see people who have long histories of running at a high level from junior to senior to masters.

I do agree with the theory that you have two ages: real age and running age and that a younger running age does help. 

There is a good article on

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/02/exercise-and-aging-part-1.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/02/exercise-and-aging-part-2.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/02/exercise-aging-and-humour.html

OO lets go. wrote (see)

Don't believe that minute a year nonsense PMJ, otherwise I'd be a pack horse by now

So in that article above there is a chart that shows decline per decade. Let's say we are all 3:20 runners (as that is 200 minutes) so 40 to 50 you expect 8.3% drop off which is 16.6 minutes or 1.6 minutes per year and it gets worse as you get older

Poacher wrote (see)

PMJ - if you are good, then OO, Col and I might let you slipstream behind us when you are 50.....so you can see how fast OldGits really are.....

That's fighting talk: my plan is to be on the champs start alongside Race Jase for VLM 2016 when I am 50 so think we will be on different starts

Loving the fighting talk

As a 44 year old who's marathon PB has improved by 24 minutes since the age of 40, I'm hoping I can buck the aging process and keep getting a bit quicker for a few more years before the inevitable decline 

PMJ  

I might regret this, but have decided to face my demons....

Jan 20 - efc-Col- Four villages half - sub 82
Jan 20 - Minni - Brass Monkey - sub.... OO- sub 80??
Feb 2 - Poacher - Thames Trot 50 - sub 7:15
Feb 10 - Moof - Wokingham HM - sub 83; Jools tbc , Also-ran maybe, PMJ same or better than this year 79:34
Feb 17 - Also-ran - Bramley 20 - PMP
Mar 3 - Dylan man - Bath half - sub 1.22; Jools sub 85 (mebbe)
Mar 10 - Minni - Northumberland HM - sub...
Mar 17 - Moof - Reading HM - sub Wokingham
Mar 17 -??Also-ran - Reading HM - sub 1:22
Mar 17 - Lunchtime - Reading HM - sub 1:30; Jools PMP
Mar 25 - CC2 - Loughborough HM - sub 86
April 7 - Dylan man - Taunton marathon (prov) - sub 3.10
April 21 - Poacher + Keir - VLM - TBC
April 21 - efc-Col - VLM - sub 2:57
April 21 - Moof + Jools+ OO??+ Also-ran - VLM - sub 3
April 21 - CC2 - VLM - sub 3.05
April 21 - Lorenzo - VLM - sub 3:10
April 21 - SBD + Minni + LB70 - VLM - sub 3:15
April 21 - Freemers - VLM - sub 3.20
April 28 - Slokey Joe - Manchester - sub 3:00
April 28 - Knight Rider - Manchester - sub 3:10
April 28 - Bike It - Manchester - TBC
May 6 - Lunchtime - Milton Keynes - sub 3:15
May 12 - DS2 - Halstead - sub 3:15 25 -
May 25 - Poacher - GUCR - sub 35
June 2 - Bike It - Comrades - sub 8:30  

PMJ - interesting stuff. I will have a good read later. I came into work today thinking I should try not to spend all day on the forums..... oh well, it is Friday and there have to be some benefits in working for yourself! Loved the fighting talk, also!!! That's a great goal - I'm sure you'll achieve it! One thing on the ageing thing. If you never actually reached your full potential before reaching V40 then I would assume it all goes out of the window and since so many on these threads got more serious than ever post 40 I reckon we could buck the trend. Well that's what I'm hoping.

Although physical peak may drop off, I am sure that life style factors, commitment, experience and the awareness of the ticking clock are all mental factors which help the older athlete to counter the aging process in endurance events. 

Running age is an interesting one. Obviously as an impact sport running ages the body much quicker than cycling or other endurance sports and therefore the lifetime running athlete is at a disadvantage when compared to running newbies. However I am convinced that an experienced athlete returning to the sport who has 'done it before' can regain or get close to their previous best easier than a newbie due to muscle memory and the neuro-muscular pathways which can be rebuilt easier than they can be forged from new. For example an experienced runner probably would regain their efficent stride / foot placement, leg speed and body position easier than a new runner. Again this would help to counter the aging process slightly.

Keir - encouraging words indeed! I hang on to that theory. I think there is one other thing that comes into play as well and that is the fact that having done something previously we are not constrained by what our brain tells us what may be possible. As we all know once Roger Bannister broke the 4 minute mile it was no longer an insurmountable barrier and was broken more than 50 times in the following couple of years. (Can't remember the exact numbers but no doubt PMJ will). Similarly with scaling Everest.

I think I can run sub 3:00 eventually (maybe unrealistic) but because I did it before I think I can. I know deep down that ageing will probably stop me ever getting much lower than that but I'm trying to put the age thing to the side. Other 50 year olds have run much faster (many fellow forumites) so anything could be possible.

Happy to be shot down in flames - I will see it as a challenge!

Similar to Freemer at 43 I still hope to get quicker and in the last year my marathon time has improved by 11 minutes. 

OO - I might not make it on Sunday.  I've been a bit under par for the past week and have a chesty cough.  I can't afford to be ill at the moment so might have to put my sensible head on. 

Sorry to hear that Minni- hope it wasn't the fear of our head to head that did for you 

Not been running great myself lately Minni and hopes of a sub 60 minutes for the 10 miler are fading for Sunday. Might have to try again next year when I'm a much faster 50 year old .

OO - Sub 60 at 50. That would be an achievement. I think sub 60 at any age is pretty good!

Minni - hope you recover quickly.

DS2 wrote (see)

As we all know once Roger Bannister broke the 4 minute mile it was no longer an insurmountable barrier and was broken more than 50 times in the following couple of years. (Can't remember the exact numbers but no doubt PMJ will).

Who can name the person who beat Bannisters record? He is so famous, and yet John Landy beat his record just 46 days later. That record stood for 3 years so I can't imagine the floodgates opened.

We seem to be at another of those plateaus: El Guerrrouj has held it since 1999, and nobody in the UK gone faster than Cram in 1985, and Seb coe is still #10 on the all time list.

Stady on DS2 you are ageing me prematurely. I'm not 50 for 7 weeeks