Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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20/11/2012 at 06:42

JD3 - best not to rush it; just play it by ear.
Happy birthday for yesterday Lorenzo. Enjoy the hills today.
9 slow miles for me this morning.
My dad is very poorly now, but at least he is home.

20/11/2012 at 07:58

So just to be clear: I have no intention of shaving anything other than my face. I have only ever shaved anything else on one occasion and that was for the chop and the stubble rash for weeks afterwards was the worst part of the whole thing. does exist.

JD3: there is no hard and fast rule and I know it is not even as simple as being person specific.

May 8 2011 I raced a marathon and May 17 2011 I raced a 5k in 18:03 and then a track 5,000 in 17:52 on June 4 (and later in the summer onto a couple of 17:45s)

Apr 22 2012 I raced a marathon and never found the speed again: June 9th I did a track 5,000 in 18:05 and that was as fast as I got.

What may be important is really the length of your training cycle. In 2011 I did a 16 week campaign: in 2012 I did 10 weeks base building and then a 16 week campaign so my body needed the rest and I ignored it.

20/11/2012 at 08:01

(((Gul))) Home is best. 


20/11/2012 at 08:06

TR what have you started!

Grow a Growler in Fanuary 

Edited: 20/11/2012 at 08:06
20/11/2012 at 08:20

Thinking of you Gul

Happy Lorenzo.

A little concerned about what Faunary images are going to pop up on my screen 

Interesting that this seems to have originated in New Zealand. Must be a southern hemisphere thing - what with Brazil and all that.

Up at Lorenzo o'clock to get in a cheaky 11miles in the rain. Needed breakfast by the time I got home.

20/11/2012 at 09:07

TR/Minni - I'm not even going to look!

Keir - Best not search for it on your work computer!!! Nice early running. I was out before 7, also, in the rain. Very warm though - made the mistake of wearing a jacket. Felt rubbish all the way round (5.77 :7:53 pace). Probably haven't recovered from stepping up to a 15 from nowhere at the weekend. Will take a rest day tomorrow (maybe)!

PMJ - waxing it is then!

Gul - Thoughts continue to be with you. I lost an uncle to the dreaded disease yesterday. Went to see my Dad last night to make sure he was ok. Makes you realise how precious time is with them! As others have said 'no place like home'.

20/11/2012 at 09:25

Thinking of you and your family Gul. Stay strong.

6.5 miles for me this morning - I still think that the dark and the rain make for great conditions for a training run, as long as it's not too windy.

I made the mistake of opening Minni's link - probably best not to circulate it around the office. Far too much detail from PMJ as well.

20/11/2012 at 09:31

Lorenzo - I agree about the conditions. It makes me feel strangely excited about the training months ahead. It's been pretty warm, mostly, down here in the SE recently and it's hard to believe we've reached mid-November and hardly had a frosty morning. Running through puddles and being splashed by juggernauts on the main road this morning made me glad I put a jacket on!!!

I will definitely not be opening Minni's link then!

I switched off from PMJ's comment. Brought back too many memories....

20/11/2012 at 10:58

Gul - Thoughts are with you and your family.

Lorenzo - belated returns.

2 mile recovery last night and feel so much the better for it with my new Alpkit head torch £15 from inc p&p (Thanks TR). More than good enough for me and pretty amazing performance for the price. Going out later for a 6-7 mile plod and aiming to consolidate into the mid 30s this week. I really struggle with early morning runs - what routine do you guys use, eat a bit more the night before? early breakfast? Every time I try pre 7.30am I just gonk out.


20/11/2012 at 11:21

Mennania - I really struggle with the evenings nowadays and yet when I was younger I did most of my training on dark nights. The other thing is that I have so much 'taxi driving' to do for my kids in the evenings that I have no time so if I don't train first thing it aint gonna 'appen!

On most runs of up to 6 miles I eat very little. Normally I just have a couple of swigs of water. On occasions I'll have a banana. For longer work I try to have a light breakfast but usually feel the effects of this for the first few miles but stops the 'bonk' issue later on. I usually get up earlier for these runs to give a little time to digest the food but it's not perfect.

I think most on here will tell you it's trial and error.

I have found running in the morning to be much easier to fit into my very busy life which means I take less stress into my running which has to be a good thing! Took some getting used to but has been worth it and, also, means that if I ever get back to considering doubles it would be possible.

20/11/2012 at 12:15

Minni - I didnt start it - it already existed !

Mennania - good value for money indeed

I always run on fresh air early doors, even 20+ miles. You are teaching your body to burn fat. The body is amazing it will soon adapt. I do the same for a 60min turbo, but if it's going to be a longer turbo or long ride then I'll eat some breakfast 5 mins before the off and even take more food with me, but thats cos cycling is power based and needs calories.

20/11/2012 at 12:29

I prefer running in the morning. Much less chance for me to find an excuse not to run if I do it first thing. I also like the feeling of having achieved something before work.

I only have a glass of water and just go. That said, I started to feel hungry after 8m this morning. But I know from the past that when I feel that deep down hunger, I am depleting my carb stores and burning more fat.

I haven't got time nor able to make the noise involved in making a coffee before I run, I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to take a pro-plus to get that caffine hit to kick start the metabolism and encourage fat rather than carb burning. Any ideas?

20/11/2012 at 12:41

Nice early running from DS2, Keir and Lorenzo.
Mennania - I'm usually out of the door within 15 mins of getting up; no food or drink, just time to get dressed,  get the joints moving and go to the loo. One thing I don't like about parkrun is getting up to have breakfast and then hanging around waiting for it to settle before going out, and running in an evening just feels weird.

20/11/2012 at 12:52

Same here - don't touch food before or during a long run. The two aims being to increase future glygogen storage, and improve fat utilisation (check the P&D bible for those using that!). Carbs before / during the run don't help this and take away a little from the effort of running 20 miles IMO. I know triathletes who do exactly the same on bikes, and improve to ride a reasonably long bike ride with water only - will do this about once per week. Even beanpoles can run a few marathons on the amount of fat they have. Its just getting at it that takes some work. 

20/11/2012 at 12:58

TR - I seem to remember you running 20 milers on empty. I'm not sure I'm near being able to do that yet, but I do on occasions do the odd longer one to help encouraging the body to burn fat. 20 miles is pretty impressive. Do you find the last few miles particularly tough when you do that?

Keir - I agree about the achieving something. Also, I am notoriously lazy once the day gets past 9am so I have to do all I can to start early.

Gul - I never used to find the joints needed much encouragement to start moving properly but, recently, knees and ankles seem quite stiff early doors. They do ease off within a mile or two but I had found this quite disconcerting at first. Is this a common issue amongst forumites?

20/11/2012 at 13:02

Sorry Also-ran, x-post! This looks like good news to me. I hate making the extra time before a long run for food. I shall experiment with just getting out the door in future and see how it goes.

I usually stay well hydrated the day before long runs so don't usually need to drink before or during them - maybe just a couple of mouthfuls of water before I set off, but not really needed I imagine!

20/11/2012 at 13:07

TR - that site has your name all over it!!

I'm an early morning runner.  16m+ and I will have coffee and porridge or readybrek - I can have this as I'm going out the door and don't seem to have to let it settle.  Anything less is normally just coffee.   If I feel I haven't eaten enough the day before I will have a bowl of porridge before going to bed.

But, this may all be about to change.  I'm off work ill (second day) so putting my bed time to good use and reading Racing Weight  with a view of reaching my optimal weight by VLM. 

Keir - put the coffee in a flask?

I'm also scheduling a some reading on long runs.  I know of a few people recently, myself included, who have run a marathon pb, or close to, with minimal long runs.  I'm wondering if the more experienced one gets at long distance running the less important the amount of long run training runs become. 




20/11/2012 at 13:16
Again it seems fairly individual. Although I try to get out the house within 30 mins of waking if running, I will eat if doing a session. On Monday I was up at 5.30 to fit in some speedwork, but had a slice of toast and honey with orange juice before going. Before a LR I'll have a couple of slices, but if I'm just doing a recovery run will only have juice
20/11/2012 at 13:20

Minni - that looks interesting. Be interested what you make of it once you've read it. Is it about nutrician/training or combination (or indeed other factors?).

I'm sure the more running you have done the more miles in your legs and, therefore, the more likely you are that you will perform well on less long runs. Whether this is the most effective way probably differs for each of us and we need to try different strategies unless something really works for us and then why change it?

I'd love to be able to do less long runs and have tried that a couple of times in recent years (not through choice, though). Result - a rather painful final 3 or 4 miles!

More painful than normal I would add!

20/11/2012 at 13:38

DS2 - Fortunately, I find my joints are fine; it's just a habit I have picked up of doing a few warm-up exercises, including one or two dynamic stretches, before setting off.

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