Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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10/12/2010 at 15:52

Part of the point of doubles is to maximise the mileage you are safely capable of so the 2 * 5m or 1 * 10m comparison partly defeats the object of it.  Doubles would probably enable a 5m + 7 - 8M as opposed to a 1 * 10m.  It is also a quicker way than singles of safely ramping up mileage in my opinion.

It also further facilitates the mantra of make your hard days hard and your easy days easy by using an early run to increase the volume of a quality day (and it will usually reduce the RPE of a later quality session) and increase volume by splitting runs on an easy day.   

10/12/2010 at 16:12
Windy wrote (see)
 When does your 18 week programme start? I believe the P&D 55-70m per week plan assumes you are running upto 55 miles per week consistently before the programme starts anyway.  Which isn't too far off what you are doing at the moment, but as it has more of a structured emphasis (key workouts) so it may be slightly more taxing.  
3rd Jan = start of 12 week HM programme (Paddock Wood HM is the A goal). This is a doctored P&D programme which I have adpated for the HM. However within that I am keeping LSRs Long (actually starting 20 milers earlier than the plan). I am then bolting on another 6 week plan to do a Maraton, which is the B goal.
10/12/2010 at 16:34

Moraghan -

We had a debate recently on the value of splitting a long run over two sessions - what's your view on this? And could you count 2*7m the same as the mid-week long run which P+D prescribe?

And is there a lower limit of miles for doubles below which it is just not worth putting the trainers on?

10/12/2010 at 16:37

When I first started this a few years ago, I was an evening runner and would set out sometime after 7:30pm when the kids were ready for bed. I remember getting back at 10pm sometimes after a midweek 13 or 14M. As my nippers have got older and have become involved in more sports of their own (esp all the cricket in the summer), I have had to switch to morning training otherwise I wouldn’t get any done. I much prefer morning training now and even a 20M on a work day is easily achieved (you just get up a bit earlier), its much easier to bag miles in the morning than it is in the evening cos you don’t have the “I should really be doing something else” feeling lurking over you, and there’s no chance of having the training slot taken away by work/life/family stuff.

If you cant get up early (sometimes at least) to bag some training then you just don’t want it bad enough. Early morning training is less visible to the SPO too, and as I don’t have any club sessions to attend I’m never “missing” in the evenings cos of my sports. Most folks will end up doing morning training if they want to be in this for a long time and not rock the family boat esp as the kids get older.

10/12/2010 at 17:29

Had to have a chuckle at your post Windy - def have a mental image of Gul as some super smooth player givin' out his sweeeet lovin' to the ladeeez. Lucky old Mrs Gul eh !

What a pants run I've just had. Started later than I intended and it got dark on me much quicker than expected. Got outside but only safe option was mincing along the gutter between the lorries and the ice. Started to feel all a bit unsafe and like a disaster waiting to happen Plan had been 4 easy/ 2 steady/5 MP. Foolishly set off far too quick and realised during mile 7 there was no way MP was going to happen in those conditions. Bollocks.Canned it after 7 but too fast to really be anything of use. Will do the MP session on the mill tomorrow. Oh well. Can't all be good days I suppose 

10/12/2010 at 17:49
Jools - CPD (and time sheets) are two things I definitely do not miss!

Moraghan - I am appreciating your succintly put point of view and hope to benefit from your advice on here.

TR - can we talk about how you are approaching your HIM training please? Are you using a book? Are you fitting in marathon training as well as or instead of it? Looking for advice from you as an experienced triathlete!
10/12/2010 at 18:05

I’m very much in the run early camp too. I’m currently getting up at about 4:45am and out the door by 5am on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for a 40- 45 minute run of either intervals, tempo or easy. The run puts me in great mood for the rest of the day and its nice coming home from work knowing I can put my feet up for the night.

10/12/2010 at 19:18

I can't do mornings and can't do evenings so I'm experimenting with lunchtimes at the moment

Keir - If the HM is your focus I wouldn't push the mileage too high -  focus on getting the tempo and interval sessions done instead.

9 miles for me at lunchtime.  Despite being a nice day I went for the treadmill option - my excuse was a slightly niggly inside knee.  It was meant to be P&D aerobic (I'm following week 1 as preparation for week 1!) but I reigned back the speed a little to just over 8:00 m/m pace.

Sports massage afterwards to sort out the niggly knee.  Hopefully caught it in the bud

10/12/2010 at 19:38
A.C wrote (see)

Moraghan -

We had a debate recently on the value of splitting a long run over two sessions - what's your view on this? And could you count 2*7m the same as the mid-week long run which P+D prescribe?

And is there a lower limit of miles for doubles below which it is just not worth putting the trainers on?

I would try and keep the MLR and LR as single continuous runs (fat utilisation and fibre recruitment), but see nothing wrong in theory, with a short second run on the MLR day.

2nd question - every run has a purpose and including the determination of general duration / intensity.  So I'd make sure you achieve the core purpose of each primary run and then think about adding in more runs or more mileage to existing runs. Not sure if that makes sense.....

E.g.  If I feel the following is necessary:

12m w / 8m @MP

20m long

14m Medium long

10m w / 10 * 1k @ 10k pace.

Then I can slot in runs around that wherever I feel like - doubles, longer cd / wu etc with the goal of maximising mileage whilst recovering adequately.

If you feel the following is necessary

6m w / 3m @ MP etc.... then you'd be considering second runs at a much lower mileage with it still being a valid strategy.

Edited: 10/12/2010 at 19:40
10/12/2010 at 20:28
Windy - I am making a habit of putting my foot in my mouth this week! Best not to say anymore or I'll dig myself a deeper hole. In any case, the kids should be going to bed soon...
10/12/2010 at 21:40
I can't/don't/won't do weekday mornings. No chance. No way Jose. Bugger off. I NEED my bed. I'd have to be back by 6am to get to work so it would be at sleep o'clock, and that's not happening!

Weekdays I train straight after work and get home anywhere between 7pm and 9.30pm depending on the session. I have no family to give a toss whether I'm in the house or not. OK, the cat might care a bit, but not that much, she's mostly asleep anyway.

Weekends I'll do mornings, sometimes I'll even start my run before 8am if I have a shift in the shop later on.

Doubles - did some on Saturdays when training for the Thunder Run. They made my very tired and I detested them. Doubt I'll bother again!
10/12/2010 at 22:05

Just managed to borrow a treadmill from a friend at work. Bought with best laid plans, yet probably not seen more than 5 miles of useage over 2 years.

Managed to get it out of her house and into my car, after removing the back seats, but couldn't get it through our front door and have a tight back passage to our cottage. After using allen keys, adjustable spanner and old knackered cycling spanner I finally was able to take the thing apart just enough for my wife and I to carry it through to the cold conservatory. Then dropped it on my foot and now have bruising

But it means I can run on snowy days. Also looking forward to using it for specific target speed sessions.

10/12/2010 at 22:16
ok here goes
hi to all the professionals in the 3.15 thread which in have avoided of late as you are all too scary and serious
but i'm now listening in and hoping that your pearls of wisdom will catapult me to sub 3.15 greatness in the spring ...
so hi to you all
10/12/2010 at 22:18
moraghan - im going to follow your plan next week

10/12/2010 at 22:20
Serious? Us lot? Read back a bit, especially all posts by Windy. Not a lot of seriousness on here! Scary? Well, maybe. RJ is scarily fast. Lots of folks get out of bed scarily early, and I'm a goth, so therefore must be scary.

Come and be scary and non-serious with us

Keir - ouch!
10/12/2010 at 22:22
Cool. give me 10 mins - i'm starting at the beginning
10/12/2010 at 22:41
wow- ok sped read it all
wish i could run that fast
have downloaded Kiers plan - the RT one and will start tomorrow am as i've only got an old VLM one which is crap
have never done 2 workouts on same day so that will be interesting
i did this for the ist time at the super six bootcamp on sat and bombed spectacularly so clearly i'm not used to it
need to get speedier - i tend to do all workouts at same pace and only loose a few seconds as miles increase so i'm clearly not pushing myself enough
thanks for the info guys
10/12/2010 at 22:49
moraghan - im going to follow your plan next week

10/12/2010 at 22:55

Welcome Jane - hmm, "serious" is not a word bandied around here too often

Keir - sounds like the one when Stan & Ollie are removal men and have to take that piano downstairs, with  truly hilarious consequences.   

Scammed a good one today - found a flyer from a local "health club" on the doormat offering a free intro day. So spent  a few relaxed hours in the state of the art gym (8m on the treadie ) then a fab sauna. And all for free! It is apparently priced at  £54 a month, did they set that figure on April 1st? The pathetic thing was that the bloke on the adjoining treadmill was doing a paltry 11kpm so I childishly ramped mine up to 20kph for a short and painful blast. Really shallow.  But  it had to be done. 

Running indoors is a bit odd though.

Edited: 10/12/2010 at 22:57
10/12/2010 at 22:57
I know what you mean
i dont like the gym
my local one is full of orange bodybuilders showing off their pecs
much prefer running outside but if its snowing a nice freebie sauna and work out whilst watching the news is a winner
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