For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world
I dunno KR - I guess for me it comes down to the fact that if I had the choice I would always run a block of 10m rather than 2x5m.
I wouldn't choose/want to run 2x5m quicker but I may end up doing so in order to finish more quickly!
I don't understand the science etc but 10m in one go has to be more substantial as a training stimulus (blood to muscles, fat burning etc) than 2x5m.
By quality, I don't mean the speed or pace of the session, I mean it being more like having one square meal rather than two snacks ie more substantial.
I also clearly accept that, like Keir, sometimes doubles are the only way to get the trianing in
A.C wrote (see)
I also clearly accept that, like Keir, sometimes doubles are the only way to get the training in
1 night away from the bathtime routine is my weekly allowance as well. Kids tucked up by 8pm, so I sometimes go out then, but prefer early mornings to late nights.
I'm not on a Marathon programme yet, but my base building weeks so far on average look something like this:
Tue: 5m am easy, 5m pm easy
Wed: 5m am steady, Core session and 5m pm OR club session 9m
Thur: 5m am recovery, 5m pm steady
Fri: 5m am easy
Sat 5m easy or rest
Sun 16 - 18m LSR.
Not too focused on pace at the moment. Generally running without Garmin and just focusing on mile building. However realising I can consistently do this sort of weekly mileage is making me think whether I should reconsider the 'up to 55m' plan I had cobbled together for my A target HM (and carry over to B target Marathon 6 wks later) and give a up to 70 plan a go. But that is a lot of running
Keir my biggest regret for London this year is that having been in good enough shape to cope with the up to 70 schedule I didn't push it and therefore didn't cash in on the base fitness I had built in 2009. So I would say go for it and bulk up the miles but make them really count.
Good point MM 6 and 4 or even 7 and 3 might be a better balance, if you can manage it (particularly if you throw in some strides to spritz up the longer sessions).
I'm another post kids bedtime runner - much prefer that to the mornings - I do have a running watershed of 9.30 after which I think I should be going to bed rather than heading out the door.
edit - typo
Keir your base is looking solid as a rock Sir. Put it this way - going from 55 to 70 is an extra 2 miles on every run (unless you're doing your doubles thing) which doesn't make it sound so bad. However I found going up to 70 caused some niggles and injuries. Quite tough to sustain 70mile weeks for 22 weeks though ! As you can see I'm not offering anything as useful as an opinion !!
The big thaw's on up here.Going to venture outside for the first outdoor run in nearly 2 weeks !
Taper time soon Barry ?? Perfect timing for the Xmas carb fest
Matchstick Man wrote (see)
I really admire people like Knight Rider who go out once the children have gone to bed.
Cheers MM, AC, FW
Reason for the magic 5 number is that my usual (non main road) run is 1 mile out / 3 mile circuit / 1 mile back. I can double back and not complete the loop (this morning I was only planning on doing 3) but when get out there I prefer to keep going. This is the only traffic free road at 6am which I feel safe on. Other roads can be used but are a bit too busy to feel totally safe.
However certainly 5m am / 7m pm is just as achievable as 3m am and 7m pm. Will build the habit during those long, beautiful Xmas hols.
30 mins on Sat is also achievable.
I am slowly increasing LSRs so can be hitting 20m mid Jan.
Fraser - Glad the ice queen is being banished. Whats the latest forecast for next wk? Have you got your HM plan yet?
Hmm. I'm not sure I'm a morning person or an evening person! I can manage getting up at 6am, 5.30 at a push, but not earlier. And I have to be in bed by 10pm; 11pm at the latest. I don't like training to finish after 9pm as I like at least an hour to relax before bed.
Rock 'n' roll weekend planned: work training course tomorrow (the end of the CPD year - 31.12.10 - waits for no woman...) and then marshalling for tri-counties XC on Sunday. I'll probably try and do my LSR after the course tomorrow so that I can jog to and from the XC. That's what I call a rock and roll lifestyle.
Keir wrote (see)
However realising I can consistently do this sort of weekly mileage is making me think whether I should reconsider the 'up to 55m' plan I had cobbled together for my A target HM (and carry over to B target Marathon 6 wks later) and give a up to 70 plan a go. But that is a lot of running
Marathon training is a lot of running, but the dark art is finding enough time to be consistent, so if you can be consistent up to 55m per week, you'll still see improvements. When does your 18 week programme start? I believe the P&D 55-70m per week plan assumes you are running upto 55 miles per week consistently before the programme starts anyway. Which isn't too far off what you are doing at the moment, but as it has more of a structured emphasis (key workouts) so it may be slightly more taxing.
I'll leave the doubles to the "spirited drinkers" on this thread, squeezing in enough time for one run is problematic enough.
KK, Getting up @4.30 to run.....Sod that.
Joolska, CPD on a weekend...double sod to that.
Just an easy 11.75m for me to report for last night @8:10mm, with a bit of mincing across the icy patches.
Gul Darr wrote (see)
I definitely find mornings preferably to evenings, which I need for time with my wife after the kids are in bed too!
Is it only me that has the theme to Shaggy's 'Mr Bombastic' going on in their head after that disclosure from Gul. "Mr Lover Lover....."
Part of the point of doubles is to maximise the mileage you are safely capable of so the 2 * 5m or 1 * 10m comparison partly defeats the object of it. Doubles would probably enable a 5m + 7 - 8M as opposed to a 1 * 10m. It is also a quicker way than singles of safely ramping up mileage in my opinion.
It also further facilitates the mantra of make your hard days hard and your easy days easy by using an early run to increase the volume of a quality day (and it will usually reduce the RPE of a later quality session) and increase volume by splitting runs on an easy day.
Windy wrote (see)
When does your 18 week programme start? I believe the P&D 55-70m per week plan assumes you are running upto 55 miles per week consistently before the programme starts anyway. Which isn't too far off what you are doing at the moment, but as it has more of a structured emphasis (key workouts) so it may be slightly more taxing.
We had a debate recently on the value of splitting a long run over two sessions - what's your view on this? And could you count 2*7m the same as the mid-week long run which P+D prescribe?
And is there a lower limit of miles for doubles below which it is just not worth putting the trainers on?
When I first started this a few years ago, I was an evening runner and would set out sometime after 7:30pm when the kids were ready for bed. I remember getting back at 10pm sometimes after a midweek 13 or 14M. As my nippers have got older and have become involved in more sports of their own (esp all the cricket in the summer), I have had to switch to morning training otherwise I wouldn’t get any done. I much prefer morning training now and even a 20M on a work day is easily achieved (you just get up a bit earlier), its much easier to bag miles in the morning than it is in the evening cos you don’t have the “I should really be doing something else” feeling lurking over you, and there’s no chance of having the training slot taken away by work/life/family stuff.If you cant get up early (sometimes at least) to bag some training then you just don’t want it bad enough. Early morning training is less visible to the SPO too, and as I don’t have any club sessions to attend I’m never “missing” in the evenings cos of my sports. Most folks will end up doing morning training if they want to be in this for a long time and not rock the family boat esp as the kids get older.
Had to have a chuckle at your post Windy - def have a mental image of Gul as some super smooth player givin' out his sweeeet lovin' to the ladeeez. Lucky old Mrs Gul eh !
What a pants run I've just had. Started later than I intended and it got dark on me much quicker than expected. Got outside but only safe option was mincing along the gutter between the lorries and the ice. Started to feel all a bit unsafe and like a disaster waiting to happen Plan had been 4 easy/ 2 steady/5 MP. Foolishly set off far too quick and realised during mile 7 there was no way MP was going to happen in those conditions. Bollocks.Canned it after 7 but too fast to really be anything of use. Will do the MP session on the mill tomorrow. Oh well. Can't all be good days I suppose
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