Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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12/12/2012 at 22:31
Bloody good effort Minni. I've just been out there. It's freezing here in the south! Intervals for me tomorrow morning as well. First ones for ages. Strangely looking forward to then although temp likely to be minus 6 again.
12/12/2012 at 23:24

Everyone, thanks for the comments and Really interesting advice about the training- makes me a bit spooked as I kinda knew my endurance wasn't the strongest since both times I used a 12 week programme maxing at 45/week. I looked at P&D and the I don't think realistically I would have the time to get up to 70/week (hence busy lifestyle in Paris bun fight Fraser!). What suggestions for a 5 session week? Am I aiming too high to get sub 3:15 with that kind of training? 

12/12/2012 at 23:49
Clive, my 1st marathon was based on 3 to 4 runs pw, averaging 40 - 45. Towards the end I had a couple of weeks in the low 50s. This is why I am interested in the balance of plans. The 1st marthon was 3.02 and had one LR (17 - 22), a midweek longish run 8 - 12, one tempo or interval run, and maybe one easy 4 or 5 miler. It was a make it up yourself plan based on zero experience

For the next marathon I upped the mileage, and the plan was influenced by P&D. The midweek medium long run became 11 - 15, and I added more easy runs to the week. mileage was closer to 60, but I struggled to find time for all the runs. Personally, the extra mileage bought small gains. i think the biggest benefit was increasing the midweek medium long run, and I'm sticking with that.

For me a Long Run, a medium Long run, tempo/interval session + 1 to 2 easy/recovery runs would more than do it for me in terms of fitting it all in and meeting my targets - I'm not particularly ambitious - just want to run well and enjoy it, and leave a bit of time over to run my business!
13/12/2012 at 08:15
Keir wrote (see)
Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

I have a rest day and then 6 running days which are 3 easy and 3 hard. The 3 hard are long run (20 miles), medium run (15 miles) and tempo (10 miles with warm up and cool down) so that is 45 miles and then add three 5 mile recovery runs for 60. That means the long is 33%: you can always do doubles to add distance to get up towards 70 

and repeat for 16 weeks or so and there you have your circa sub 3.

I liked Daniels. It added some background to P&D (which is based upon the Daniels formula), although Daniels is much more focused upon shorter distances.

The thing I like about P&D is that is has phases so it isn't quite repeat for 16 weeks so you get 3 (or 4 if you include the taper) mesocycles and so you can look at blocks of 4 to 6 weeks and breaking anything down make sit easier to handle.

The first block is endurance so concentrate on getting the runs in (Jantastic), then the next is lactate threshold and endurance (Febulous) and then race preparation (Marchvelous) .

Edited: 13/12/2012 at 08:16
13/12/2012 at 09:05

Mennania - hope you are fighting fit very soon.
Bike It - sorry to hear about your mother-in-law and son; you're having a real rough time at the moment. Thoughts are with you. Great plan you have there. I'm still trying to decide how to structure my running this year. When I finish base-building, I will need to focus on speed and speed/endurance to prepare for a sub 40 attempt in May, but not quite sure how to go about it. Then I'll need to up the mileage a bit more for a sub 90 attempt in October.
AR - the long run v. weekly mileage is a bit of a dilemma for me too. I think 25 to 33% is the general rule of thumb, but if, like me, you're not going to reach 60 mpw, then you can't help but break it. I'm sure I read a comment by Moraghan somewhere that said marathon training is a different ball game - but he didn't say how it differs in this respect! I guess as long as you don't do over 33% in one run every week then it should work. So week 1 you could do 20 mile long run in a 50 mile week, which is 40%, and then week 2, 15 miles which is 30%. OK. So I've no idea really!
Out at very silly o'clock this morning (4:32  ) to do my "long" run. 13 miles at 8:49 m/m. Totally and utterly Haddocked now

13/12/2012 at 09:20

Perhaps you are getting up too early Gul? Better a kipper than a haddock! 

13/12/2012 at 09:31

Gul - good effort to get out at that time. I thought 7am was early enough with the weather they way it is. I have the same dilemna with speed vs endurance with similar target for 2013.

After yesterdays minus 6 it was positively tropical out there this morning - minus 3

Anyhow did 6.5 miles with 4 x mile reps at between 6:47 and 6:53. Was intending to run them all inside 7mm with nice control. Quite pleased with this on a difficult loose surface.

Clive - almost over!!! Good luck - and you Malcs. Lets hope one of us gets through to carry on from KR last year

13/12/2012 at 09:33

Clive, try looking at P&D up to 55mpw. Though it starts going over 50mpw toward the end, the first few weeks are something like 33mpw-43mpw. More do-able for lightweights like us!

13/12/2012 at 09:45

And for a 5 running-session week (which is what that P&D plan mostly consists of), in the first few weeks (endurance mesocycle) you are looking at 1. Long Run, 2. Medium Long Run, 3. Tempo or General Aerobic, 4. and 5. Recovery. 

Of course, we all do core, strength and stretch sessions as well, don't we?

13/12/2012 at 12:06
No Paris for me!!!
13/12/2012 at 12:14

I think the Asics have been announced and I'd just like to say congratulations to those who didn't get through!  You don't need a competition where you win the chance to follow a crap schedule and have your every moved watched to achieve your marathon dreams.  What you need is the motivation to train hard and follow a schedule that addresses your weaknesses and potential.   You are the real winners at the end of the day. 

now, get your pitches in on the Forum 6 thread!

DS2 sorry you didn't get through but you don't need it.  You'll get better advice on here  - this is like a private coaching thread.

13/12/2012 at 12:21

DS2 - what Minni said. Less pressure and no jealousy here.

If the folks looking to run 5 x week, were to spend the next 6 weeks doing something like a long run of 16ish to 18M, and something like a 12, 10 and a couple of 8's, all nice and easy does it, then they would be doing themselves a massive favour IMO.

13/12/2012 at 12:30

Minni said - "What you need is the motivation to train hard and follow a schedule that addresses your weaknesses and potential" 

exactly . . . .

9 terrible miles last night - after feeling OK on previous two or three runs, hampered quite severely by hip discomfort - hoping this is just part of "getting back to it" - my experience (and dog knows I have lots of that) tells me to be patient, but at the time it feels v. demoralising  . . .

13/12/2012 at 12:33

Thanks Minni & TR & Birch - every cloud as they say  And it would appear the silver lining could be much bigger in this case!

I'm definitely going to have a look at the forum 6 now. If that doesn't happen I already have a load of great advice from all of you here. It's certainly clear I need to up my weekly mileage and get an MLR in. Really looking forward to the challenge ahead

Edited: 13/12/2012 at 12:33
13/12/2012 at 12:42

The great thing Malcs is that you've already identified what you need to do through this process.  Exciting time ahead for you.

13/12/2012 at 13:02
Thanks guys. I don't feel that disappointed. I'm training well because of the advice on here. Also, view played with the categories after the voting. Not fair on those that lost out. Onwards and upwards.
13/12/2012 at 13:33

Congratulations on not getting through DS2. You're chances of achieving your target time have greatly improved now (even if you will have to buy your own trainners for the big day now!).

13/12/2012 at 16:15
Commiserations chaps/chapesses. As pointed out above, who needs stress and scrutiny in their running? Its more fun to dance to your own drums, not someone else's.

Minni do you know which start you are on for VLM? Im toying with the idea of a fancy dress sub 3.15 attempt, maybe I can slipstream behind you as you storm off to a heumungus PB
13/12/2012 at 16:18
Thanks Keir, myself and malcs were talking last night about whether it would do more harm than good. Maybe this is telling up something.

Thanks for all your support on here guys but it wasn't meant to be.

Back to being on the proper GFA thread full time. I can almost taste success.
13/12/2012 at 16:37

Tough luck on not getting through DS2, but as others have said, there is just as good advice & knowledge on here! That said having a schedule planned for you is pretty good and the coaching was the best part of the prize in my opinion.

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