Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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12/12/2012 at 09:11

Gul - I'm sure for you 4.45am will be fine!!!  Could always di it before you go to bed!

5.5 miles this morning at 8:10mm - nice and easy. It was glorious on the top of the downs. Nobody about and the sun coming up. Now I remember why i like running outside in the winter. makes you feel alive!

Mind you it was minus 6 when I set off. Luckily it warmed up and was only minus 5 at the finish!

12/12/2012 at 09:24
Not up for 0445? What makes you think that sort of slacking is acceptable?
12/12/2012 at 10:27

LR - Hope the foot has settled down

RFJ - Agreed - I had an achilles injury from a monday night kick around which took me out of the game for 6 months. Havent been back since.

Hope the asics 26.2 guys have some good news soon.

This chesty thing I have has not gone away so have been taking it easy since sundays 15miles. Probably wont be getting out until Friday at earliest as it is still lingering.

12/12/2012 at 11:01

Morning All,

I've been very absent from these forums for a while.  My young boy has developed biting/hitting behaviour which I am trying to work on.  My mother-in-laws cancer has returned and she is starting to get quite ill again but is causing a lot of stress to my wife.  I've been experimenting with my food as a lot of stuff seems to make bloated and de-energised these days. I'm running well and fast and finally recovered from the autumn marathon.

I'm off to South Africa today.  We'll be in Potchefstroom which is a popular altitude training place due to being at 1600m, the good weather and the facilities of PUK university.  I'd like to say a high altitude, warm weather training camp, but mother-in-laws cancer will be the main topic.

Regarding Clive's question, then I see it differently.  I don't see any benifit to anything by low volume plodding in the off-season.  It has to be focused.  Either you are focused on developing speed, which comes from neuro-muscular programming, strength, balance and co-ordination and you build the endurance component later.  Or you focus on medium volume, low intensity to build up your mitrocodria which develops efficiency.  I did that last year in the Nov-Dec period and in January my speed was definently increased and aerobically I was ready for good training.

I'm not doing the same this year because, altough aerobically ready, I was unprepared to enter a hard period of training in which the intensity increased.  I couldn't handle the fast running as I'd been in slow gear for the preceeding months. Subsequently I got injured in Feb.  So this year I set my time table like this:

Nov/Dec - higher speed low volume (around 35miles per week) - emphasis on strength/core training, form development - muscular and neuro-muscular developmenmt

Jan/Feb - higher speed, increased volume (around 50miles per week) - emphasis on extending speed endurance and maintaining good form for long periods

March - transition to lower speed, higher volume  (50-70 mile per week) - empahsis on increasing endurance

April - slow, high volume - emphasis on endurance

May - high speed, tapered volume - maximise cruise speed and recover

2nd June - Ready for Action

 

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 11:02
12/12/2012 at 11:23

Mennania - We expect to hear tomorrow so fingers crossed. All my injuries in recent years have come from other sports so I've knocked them on the head this year. My wife says I'm awful to live with when injured (apparently, worse than usual) because I get so depressed!

Bike it - Sorry to hear about your sons behaviour. How old is he. I think lots go through this so I'm sure it will sort itself out with a bit of 'tough love'! I understand how you feel to a certain extent since one of my autistic daughters carried on like this for many years and has only just got out of it! It must be very difficult with the situation with your mother-in-law. I feel for you all. Take care.

I liked your views on the training emphasis. I'm always torn as to he best way forward. Probably why I need to win this vote and get some proper coaching!

The voting closes at Midday and we'll know tomorrow hopefully!

12/12/2012 at 12:17
Bike It wrote (see)

I'm off to South Africa today.  We'll be in Potchefstroom which is a popular altitude training place due to being at 1600m, the good weather and the facilities of PUK university.  I'd like to say a high altitude, warm weather training camp, but mother-in-laws cancer will be the main topic.

I worked with some guys at Potchefstroom and trained on the track there a few times. Never really noticed any difference (other than the fact it was -6 in London in Feb and +20 there).

12/12/2012 at 13:33
Scooby Dudek wrote (see)

For us it is all about endurance anything else is icing on the cake. If you can't run for 3 hours slowly, you have no change of running quickly for 3 hours (not sure where I got that one from, but I like it).

I like that one too Scooby! I'm holding off on the speed training for the next few weeks as to be honest I have had a whole year (nearly) of doing reps etc, so I think my body needs to step back a bit.

12/12/2012 at 13:45

Oooooof just back from my weekly long brrrrrrrrrrr cold but nice

18.5 miles @ 7.39 pace, its my 5th long run in as many weeks and its starting to show as i feel really strong. still only running around 35 mpw at the moment, cant seem to get my head around 55+ mpw.

I think ill end up somewhere between a shades and P&D 55mpw plan.

If i cant do the higher mileage is it worth while running the sessions a little bit harder?

12/12/2012 at 14:40

Careful Carb. You are 'cruising for a bruising'!

35mpw and 50% of those miles in 1 run is a recipe for injury. Add in some speedier stuff and the risks are even higher. If I were you, I would be very careful and back off the LSR distance a bit, try to add a few miles onto existing runs and add another run or 2 in if you can. Then up the LSR when you reach 55mpw and finally add some speed. The risk of injury where you are at the moment is quite high.

12/12/2012 at 14:57

I'm interested to know where all the ratios and advice on long run length compared to weekly mileage comes from. I've been putting my plan together and in doing that have read loads of conflicting plans, from the LR = 25% of weekly miles, to the 50% of total mileage on a plan that was promoted to reduce injury. For you guys, is this based on experience or based on some of the better put toghter plans. Just curious as my plan looks plain crazy at the moment

 

12/12/2012 at 16:04
Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)
I worked with some guys at Potchefstroom and trained on the track there a few times. Never really noticed any difference (other than the fact it was -6 in London in Feb and +20 there).

Interesting PMJ - I think I'm about 20s per mile slower for the same level of effort.  I'll try and gather some more scientific data over the next weeks. I'm running mostly on dirt roads which is going to be a bit slower than tarmac roads.

DS2 - my boy is 3 now - he was bitten badly several times at his previous preschool and that is one of the reason we moved him to a different one - but now he regards this as an acceptable behaviour.

Also-ran - I think this stems back to the Lydiard/Jack Daniels training plans when the rule 'longest run should be less than 25% weekly volume' was originated.  As most people were high mileage runners it was reasonable to do a 20 mile run  as part of a 80 mile week.   If you're a 50 mile a week runner then you still need to run some 20 milers to get a good endurance.  The guideline most use here is for the five longest runs of the campaigns to add to 100miles.  Altough for my last marathon I ran 3x 20miles as I had a 12 week build up and was doing other valuable 14-17 mile runs (see below)

But its not only the length, but the speeds that are important.  I think the most important runs feature a long MP sections to the shorter long runs - so 8, 10, 12 mile at MP in a 14-17 mile long run.  As well as progressively faster speed in the longer long runs - so up the pace for last 3-10 miles of the 20 milers - the shorter the duration of the speed increase, the faster you should go.  This type of work simulates the specificity of the marathon - long sections of MP and hard work at the end.

 

12/12/2012 at 16:27

Thanks Bike-It. Is Jack Daniels Running Formula worth a read? - I still haven't finished my letter to Santa

12/12/2012 at 16:46

AR - I would recommend P&D over Jack Daniels Running formula anyday - JDs Running formula is a few good principles but it is not very clear on why.  It also covers 800m to marathon.  The schedule tables only cover the principle runs (long and intense) so it is not really clear on how to schedule a week or week by week. I read it before P&D and suddenly I understand what he was talking about when I read P&D, but it was nothing I couldn't have got by reading P&D alone.

12/12/2012 at 19:10

Also-ran: I never worried about how much the long run made up, just how it fitted in. I have a rest day and then 6 running days which are 3 easy and 3 hard. The 3 hard are long run (20 miles), medium run (15 miles) and tempo (10 miles with warm up and cool down) so that is 45 miles and then add three 5 mile recovery runs for 60. That means the long is 33%: you can always do doubles to add distance to get up towards 70 but I think the key is hitting that long one reasonably fresh so I would race/tempo Saturday, rest Sunday, recover Monday and long Tuesday and medium Thursday. If you need long on Sunday then you can do your efforts on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday long so again two days clear before the long one.

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 19:10
12/12/2012 at 19:22
AR I've tried to "read"Daniels. Pretty much impossible. It's more of a geek's reference tomb. It's BIG and if any none running Muggles happen to glance at it they will think you are quite frankly insane

Is tomorrow the big day for the Paris bun fight then??

Bike it. Enjoy your time in the homeland
12/12/2012 at 20:44

Interesting stuff guys. I've received quite a bit of feedback on my 'Vote for DS2' thread about the long run being too much of a percentage of total miles and have listened to it and cut back my intended 18 last Sunday to 15. It would have been 18 of 40.

It seems the PMJ method is probably going to suit me and I've been working on getting my base up to cope with that. When I was younger I ran a lot more interval stuff and it seemed to enable me to make very quick improvements but I just don't think at my age I can cope with that now. having said that, I still only ran hard three days a week!

I've been building tha base carefully and feel better prepared to start a campaign than at any time for the past 19 years but I feel like I actually know very little. I can't do geeky books at all so have been a sponge for the advice on here in recent weeks. I am convinced this is a large part of why I am where I am.

It will be interesting to see what the RW coaches decide for me in the unlikely event of me getting picked for the Asics target 26.2.

12/12/2012 at 20:49

Bike it - learned behaviour! At least you should be able to sort it. Boys of three - ummm! Sometimes I'm glad I had three girls! Not often though

Good luck!

12/12/2012 at 21:07
Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

I have a rest day and then 6 running days which are 3 easy and 3 hard. The 3 hard are long run (20 miles), medium run (15 miles) and tempo (10 miles with warm up and cool down) so that is 45 miles and then add three 5 mile recovery runs for 60. That means the long is 33%: you can always do doubles to add distance to get up towards 70 


and repeat for 16 weeks or so and there you have your circa sub 3.

I liked Daniels. It added some background to P&D (which is based upon the Daniels formula), although Daniels is much more focused upon shorter distances.

 

 

 

12/12/2012 at 21:59

Geeky running books?  - Noakes' Lore of Running. 

The End.

12/12/2012 at 22:13

Fecking cold out there again.   I had to ditch my intervals last night because I ended up working late so had to get them in tonight.  10 miles in total with the reps done along the A697 because it was the only road gritted!  Fraser you can imagine what that was like!

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