Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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18/12/2012 at 21:23

Scooby - that sounds like a great session. I think for me, as my confidence is starting to build I'm having to be careful not to get carried away. I'm doing (almost) a MLR tomorrow (planned 10 miler) but won't push at all. I am finding that at 8mm is a very conversational pace for me at the moment so I will probably aim to run a little slower than that.

TR - I have a 10M at Canterbury on 27 Jan where I'm looking at working hard and that will give me a good gauge, I think. That is still 15 weeks out from my marathon so still early stages. I'm expecting to run inside 70 minutes which makes me think that I would then be on course for sub 3:15 in May. I shall re-assess when I crash and burn.....

LR - although it gets rather expensive if you do it too often I would strongly recommend a couple of sessions with a Personal Trainer if they have a good one at your gym. I stopped it once I knew enough to fill my own time though because it was costing £180 for four sessions!!!

Moof/RFJ - good solid running.

Jools - I keep hoping for a six pack

18/12/2012 at 21:25

DS2 - the outcome of the 10M will tell you where you are quiet nicely. 10M is a good distance to use.

18/12/2012 at 21:39

Thanks TR. I think I've got my head out of the fecking clouds now! Have just been messaging Malcs and telling him how I've benefitted from listening to the likes of you on here. Decided that I ought to carry on listening!


18/12/2012 at 22:35

My view on MP (I;m sure Minni will in reality agree !) is that it shouldn't really be set til taper time. That said any runs at MP effort at this stage I think are pretty tough runs. No way I could knock out 6 @ race day MP this early on. With me it always seems to end up that my training MP mid campaign ends up getting revised down race day though so possibly effectively training at MP just now will in fact end being MP-10sec or whatever by race day. Does that make any sense ?? Either way I'm of the view it should be to perceived effort and try not to be a slave to the garmin at the time ie cover the screen and use it for data analysis post run

As for previous years I imagine I'll end up using the solo 20 miler with 10 easy/10 MP 4 weeks out to be brutally honest and establish realistic MP - that and tune up races though I'm less inclined to believe them these days

7 for me today with 12 x 200m efforts in 40-41 secs each. Still a shock to be trying to run fast....

18/12/2012 at 22:58
Ah yes I do agree Fraser. My MP miles just now are run at MP training pace (which is the training pace of my last marathon. Or at least my last PB marathon. Does that make sense?) They are not based on what pace I'd like to run a marathon at in 4 months time.

Another 9 tonight brings the total for the day to 12. I've decided not to do my intervals at 5am because I need another hour sleep so will tackle it in the evening. Session: after 3m wu is 6x 400m, 3m @ MP, 6x 200m. Yikes!
Edited: 18/12/2012 at 22:59
18/12/2012 at 23:10
Interesting training talk. Agree entirely with Jingle Wells about not setting things in stone. Also about not being a slave to GPS. Last campaign included almost nothing at MP, but some stuff much faster than MP, then finally a flat out HM with a fortnight to go; didn't finalise MP until race day, but it all seemed to come together in the end.
19/12/2012 at 06:58

More interesting thoughts about running to feel vs running to pace. I have to confess I'm not terribly good at covering up the Garmin and running to feel - I need to see some figures to give me encouragement / a kick up the backside.

Just back from 8 miles at 7:30 which (without setting it in stone) is MP+15s

19/12/2012 at 08:07

Slave to the Garmin = Garmin Gimp. 

IDJ - You need to get yourself a (Garmin) Gimp Mask. 

19/12/2012 at 08:11

In base training mode (i.e. now!) I run with only distance showing on the Garmin.  I take autpmatic mile splits so I've got the data afterwards but don't stress about pace during the run.  5M easy in exactly that fashion this morning.

19/12/2012 at 08:38
Garmin gimp!

The approach in my IM training plan doesn't even consider distance, it's all about time in the required HR zone. Weird!!

I've been sticking to it, mind, for my bike sessions and have to reign myself in quite a bit which, if the approach of HR based training is sound, indicates that I have previously been overdoing it. Particularly in the early stages of a campaign.

1hr in the pool last night, 30min spin this morning followed by 15min on a tready to give the foot another test. Dull ache has begun but not sharp pain
19/12/2012 at 08:47

Scooby - great training run; you must be really chuffed with that one.
Minni - sounds like a tough session you have lined up. I would definitely prefer attempting that after a good night's rest rather than in an evening!
I haven't done any core strength work for ages now. As someone else said, I'll get a round to-it one day.
Just 3 easy miles this morning (8:29m/m, I think).

19/12/2012 at 08:59

I'm coming down with a cold. It was a real struggle getting out of bed at 6am and then paused again at the bedroom door - mentally battling the urge to return to the duvet. But I managed to overcome and got 5 easy, uneventful miles done before breakfast. 

19/12/2012 at 09:07

Whilst I agree with everything people are saying about setting marathon pace already. I have decided to go with the Nell Mcandrew approach, pick a time and train towards it. I do however believe/agree that as the training progresses you will find your natural marathon pace to effort. The thought of 16 with 8 at MP is already stressing me out, but I will be a lot more confident of 20 with 10 at MP later in the campaign.  The MP later may well be different than it is now however.  

Quite sadly I have not sleep for 2 days now. Monday night stressing about tempo run on Tuesday. Tuesday night too excited about tempo run.

Keir Nice mental strength to get out. Sometimes less is more, be careful.

Edited: 19/12/2012 at 09:09
19/12/2012 at 09:29

Definateley something to be said for the Nell approach Scooby and very impressive start to the P&D schedule (I won't mention my tempo efforts).

I've always viewed MP as a moving target and focussed more on the effort (eg measured by HR) rather than the speed.  At this stage, the most important thing is to be just getting the miles in and staying injury free.

Edited: 19/12/2012 at 09:30
19/12/2012 at 09:31

Thanks TR and everyone else too. It's really interesting to hear how you all train. 

In the past 4 campaigns I've mainly done short, fast (3-5 mile) runs in the week and then an LSR at the weekend. This is mainly because of pressures on my time. 

Sounds like I'd be better doing fewer longer but slower runs. I think I also need to make time to fit more miles in. 

This all makes alot of sense. I was getting knackered, having to have lots of rest days and always picking up overuse niggles. Quite excited about a new radical change of tack

Thanks again!

19/12/2012 at 09:40

Some nice thread training done this morning 

Keir - Hope it doesnt develop into anything worse.

I think 'working toward' it is a good description Scooby - I am nowhere near what my target is but thats why I am making sacrifices over the next18 weeks to try and acheive that Goal. My 4 at LT pace last night was based on rmy PB HM time and was too fast this early on - I havent run anything sub 7mm for 6 months and expect to blast 4 sub 6.30mm on the bounce on the very first day? Cant be good for you 

 In line with Slokeys thoughts Training to HR zones is what I plan to do between now and mid Jan and use the garmin for analysis and projection. after that will add some specific HM training for a couple of weeks and see where I am after Wrexham Half mid Feb as a gauge.

 Off to see what Garmin gimp mask brinks up on google

19/12/2012 at 09:45

WTKOOA - are you suggesting that I go running through the woods at 5.30am with a gimp mask and a head torch? Folks out walking their dogs at that time must be more understanding in your part of the country!!!

Edited: 19/12/2012 at 09:45
19/12/2012 at 10:40
When I eventually get around to a running a session which includes a bit at MP, this will be run on effort based on average heart rate from last marathon (157 bpm).
I will then base my P&D training (MP- 20/10%) around this pace and then alter paces after future MP runs.

I don't think I'm any condition to run at my last race MP let alone my hopeful planned MP. I reckon if I run everything around PMP, I'd peak in about mid Feb, run a great half marathon, pick up a niggle and not hit my main marathon goal.
19/12/2012 at 10:58

Lots of interesting stuff on MP. I will have to read back properly later - I need to do some work!

Anyhow, put all that on the backburner and went for an easy 10 miler this morning. First mile slow, 5 at 8mm feeling easy and 4 at 7:42mm feeling comfortable. Didn't really look at the watch too much today. Just ran as I felt and increased pace a little towards the end. Was surprised those last 4 came out at that to be honest.


19/12/2012 at 11:43
Moof, you've just described what happened in each of my previous campaigns!!!!

Gaaah, why am I such a muppet?!?!!
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