Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

23,381 to 23,400 of 47,666 messages
09/01/2013 at 11:23

Minni Nice early start

Keir I would indeed be very happy with 1:22-1:25

Up, out of bed and dressed within 2 mins of waking up. Daughter back in school today and I forgot to set the alarm  going for my run later.

09/01/2013 at 11:39

In regards to increasing cadence to help prevent injury the document below provides very strong evidence.  This was a clinic trial performed by the Department of Orthopedics and Rehablition in Winconsin University. Their conclusion is -

"we conclude that subtle increases in step rate can substantially reduce the loading to the hip and knee joints during running and may prove beneficial in the prevention and treatment of common running-related injuries."

“our findings indicate that a substantial reduction in energy absorption occurs at the hip and knee when step rate is increased to 10% above preferred with a constant running speed, while a 5% increase appears to reduce the total work performed by the knee. Thus, the reduction in joint loading via step rate manipulation may have distinct benefits in the treatment and prevention of common running-related injuries involving the knee and hip.”

Full publication -

09/01/2013 at 11:40

Jools  - meant to say earlier that it looks like another case of mistaken identity (see click tracks comment). My musical ability is rather limited.
Poacher - fortunately, it's not legging weather in Norfolk yet.
Ant - nice WMPFMP run.
SD - Good lie-in
PMJ - I would be very happy with 1:26-129. And I would be ecstatic to jog round in 1:22-125! Get well soon.

09/01/2013 at 12:05

Left calf is rather painful today so off to the physio tomorrow.  Like Keir, I've got to blame my kids. I've had a sore shoulder for the last month from carrying them around and suspect that tightness originating from my shoulder has pulled me out of alignment.  Instead I do what I can and get busy with the weights.    

Speed is proportion to cadence multiplied by stride length.  To get faster you need to improve one, the other or both.  Of course running is essential to improve speed but other things like metronome can help.


09/01/2013 at 12:05

Some nice early starts today. I didn't begin my 11 miles until 7.30am!! I think I must be over the lurgy now. Have run well last two days and feel fine.

The Northumberland falling at Half term is tempting minni. Then again, so is York on a Saturday. I need to decide what I'm looking to get out of it I suppose.

Keir - I remember those days - or nights - of having young kids. You have my sympathy.

Also-ran - I like your attitude. Very easy to get totally focused on the marathon and forget what running really gives us.

Scooby - impressive dressing!!!

PMJ - sorry to hear of the illness. So much going around! I know what you mean about the cost of some of these events. At least at the slower end we get better value!

09/01/2013 at 12:44
Poacher wrote (see)
Nice cup of tea and a biscuit D&D. Early doors running is for those with great mental strength.

I get up ok and once I'm out its fine but those few minutes between getting out of bed and out the door is dodgy.  I always feel great for the rest of the day after an early run though.

I might be tempted by the Coast marathon (not to be mistaken with the Castles marathon!)  but only as a jaunt out.  Does it follow the same route as the Coastal run (including the road stretches) or is it purely on trail and sand?

DS2 Here is the link for the Castles marathon.

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 12:45
09/01/2013 at 12:46

Sorry link not working - I'll do it from home tonight.

09/01/2013 at 13:47

Thanks minni - that'll be great!

Question for P&D specialists please. If I'm looking to run 7:15mm in my marathon what pace should I be running general aerobic sessions at?

09/01/2013 at 14:06

Poacher - Entering a marathon for fun - if this was facebook, you'd get a “LIKE”!

York marathon sounds interesting too. What would the profile like round there?

09/01/2013 at 14:07

DS2 - Last time I followed P&D I was looking at a very similar PMP and I did most of my GA runs at around 8 m/m  - although I think that some might say too fast and others may say too slow. It seemed to do the job for me tho. I think that they describe it in the book as "your normal run pace", which I took to be almost conversational pace, but only a few words, and not full poetry recitals.

09/01/2013 at 14:11

DS2, the P&D range is MP+15% to MP+25%, so between 8:20 and 9:04mm.

09/01/2013 at 14:26
Yes York is not a bad place for a mara, nice part of the world and a decent catchment area.

Minni the coastal mara is the coastal race backwards, then forwards ie Alnmouth to just short of Beadnell then back. But without the road sections, so all trail and beach, and sticking right to the coast except for a short bit from Low Newton past that coastguard lookout cottage to the turn at the burn by the tern colony on Beadnell bay. (see what I did there?) Not hilly, but definitely a challenge. Why not come along for a slow jaunt

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 14:28
09/01/2013 at 14:46

DS2 I would say approx PMP +15% as a max, so 8:20 or slower

14 miles in 8:09 d&d. Felt tough mentally, but same pace as yesterdays run, but HR 2% lower. Legging today for me.

09/01/2013 at 15:08

Thanks Fingers/KR/ Scooby/LR - I really struggle to run slower than 8:20. I think I'll have to try harder though. I do seem to be getting the hang of P&D now though, and now I've started the schedule I'm seeing where it all fits together.

I believe the profile is very flat for York - that's what they are saying on the website anyhow.

09/01/2013 at 15:11

And Hello YoungPup. Yes, I am aiming for MK too. Your 10K PB is a minute better than mine (set in July), and though my more recent HM time is better than yours by 2 mins, you rightly say that your PB there looks soft. More importantly 50mpw is way more than I've managed: I peaked in Nov with 38mpw before a rubbish december, and I'm still climbing out of the trough. So what I'm saying is: I think you are ahead right now . Here's hoping we both make it to the start line in one piece.

09/01/2013 at 15:15

DS2 - if its on the same course (or some of) as the Brass Monkey HM then it will be pretty flat and perhaps slightly . 

09/01/2013 at 19:15
Utterly impressive - nay borderline lunacy - getting up to start a run at 4.45. If I had to contemplate that to get the miles in I'm afraid it just wouldn't happen. Small truck load of respeck innit consider the gauntlet well and truly thrown down Gul

Quite like th sound of some of those northerly marathons. Not for me this year. Amsterdam beckons in the Autumn

Have just entered a couple of summer HMs in the North West. Lytham St Anne's and Fleetwood in July and August. Potentially quick flat courses which is what they're all about for me. Anyone had any experience if either f them??

8 ploddy miles tonight but a good session yesterday with some HMP chunks in the 5.55 to 6.06 range. I'd take that in spades on race day....
09/01/2013 at 19:32

4.45? Theres one in the morning aswell? Good effort Minni - Mornings dont seem to suit me so did my 12 miler tonight with 965ft elevation at 7.55 ave with ave hr of 148 and a cadence of between 177 and 190. Dont know what any of that means re progress but was feeling in a sharing mood and thought you might like to know...

Rescheduled VO2 and LT test for Monday. Should be interesting,

York marathon - Ive got family over there..A long weekend starting with a little jaunt on Sat morning might be on..

09/01/2013 at 19:41

I have family close to York as well but you can't beat Abingdon for an Autumn marathon.

Impressive early starts from Minni and Gul (as if we'd expect anythig else ...)

I like to run in the daylight during the winter - great for the mental wellbeing but not so good for work.  So a bit of a long lunchbreak today for the 14 miles - just as well the boss is understanding

Edited: 09/01/2013 at 19:42
09/01/2013 at 20:26

In trying to reply to DS2's question regarding pacing I have just clicked on my previously reliable link to the McMillian Pacing calculator. But it seems as if it has recently been 'improved' and is therefore now shit! 

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