Sub 3h15

Happy to join the 3:15 running club as long as I can add a 1 to the start

No sign of the sun here in Buckinghamshire either

Badbark - you won't get the same training benefit from the split am/pm run as a single MLR but if the logistics to do mid-week 14 milers don't work I wouldn't worry about it. 

I'm concerned by all these accidental 20 mile runs.  I have 18 scheduled for Sunday and I have to keep reminding myself I don't need to extend this to 20

A steady 11 miles at lunchtime today with the last couple of miles at 7:12 m/m pace.  Begining to feel the training is starting to have an effect.

SBD Nice 11 today. I also have 18 at the weekend and already thinking of accidentily running 20, either that or I may go for 18 unfueled.

Mennania Thanks for the offer. I normally use a broker, same one I have used for approx eight years, however I was browsing on line the order day and the building society with the best deal has a local branch. I thought, a quick call, how bad can it be? I remembered very quickly how bad it is, but now the ball is slowly rolling I will see where it stops.

So this 3:15 thing... are we talking pre or post spring marathon?  If post I'd opt for 21st June - longest day!  Although sure to be dull and wet....

Poacher - best of British tomorrow. 

De lurk time.......I need a bit of advice if thats ok? Im currently runnin around 40 mpw (41 is the bigest i have run last week lol) in 4 sesssions and 2 road or mtb rides.

Now the advice i need, i did 17.5 miles yesterday @7.37 with last 3mi @MP-7.15mi.

Today i went out for a run and did 7 mi @ 7.07 and it felt very easy,  in the past its meant to of been recovery and i have felt the effects of the run.Or is it just the increased milage i have built into my running for the last 4 weeks?

Question is am i undertraining or need to evaluate my target time? should i feel fresh the following day?

KR - sound like your XC isnt going to happen then. I have to be in the jam jar by 9am Sunday for an away game, so wont be bagging a long run this Sunday. I'm not running at 6am on a Sunday 13 (?) weeks out, I'd do it if it was 5 weeks out though.

Martin - if I had a 40M commute, I'd be doing it on my bike twice a week through Spring to Autumn (fixtures allowing).

SJ - nice one, sounds familiar.

Badbark - my run commute is 5M each way, but I make the morning run anywhere up to 14M through a marathon campaign, and then just do 5M home again. I'd say that your 11.5/5.5 commute is worth a MLR, but you only need to add on another 10 to 15mins to the 11.5M and you'd have a MLR anyway. I've also split the miles something like 8 and 8 before too (today I did 7M and 8M), just for a bit of variation. 10 and 10 would be a good days work !

Carbloader -

How did you settle on 7.15 as MP?

 your mlr and slr should be 10 -20%slower than your MP. So a 7.15 mp suggests a lsr pace starting at 8.40 and finishing around the 8.00, or as you have stated your target time is wrong - but it would be wrong by some margin for the training paces you are running (it would be 6.20 - 6.55 using same conversion). With a mileage of 40 week It would sugest your running your lsr too quick.

Mennania-

mmmm lets say i do this running training unconventional to say the least, i did my 3.29 mara pb off 25 mpw running about 5 long runs @ mp(8min mi) lol.so basicly i did my long runs at M/P!!!!!!

Im aiming for sub 3.10 so thats around 7.15 mi, although im doing a HM in march so that will be good indicator as to what i can achieve.

i have never run slower than a 8 mile really just feels too slow. I thought i was doin good running slower as it was. like i say i dont do conventional training lol.

Should i slow the long runs more? Like i said im feeling fresh of them or just keep it as it is?

Carbloader - Sometime the effect from a session take a few days to be felt. In a way, the point of the long run is time on feet, to prepare you for how you will feel after running for 3 + hours. Then again, as you are not running a conventional plan, all rules are out the window really.

I know sub 3.10 on 40mpw is do-able though. I think with 1 LSR building up to 20miles a few times, 1 tempo run of 8 - 10 miles and maybe another session (shorter speedier stuff / hills / fartlek) you have the makings of the plan.  But I would try to avoid doing these back to back and run other sessions 8m/m or slower so you recover enough so you are ready to kick arse on the fast / long days.

Badbark - I am impressed by your commitment this campaign. I reckon marathon training does need to fit around real life as much as possible and think your double would be pretty close to the MLR as to not make much difference. Certainly not worth taking a days holiday for.

Keir - Yeah thats what i have been doing dont do any runs under 7 miles as its not really worth getting changed for otherwise.did a 10 miler 2 weeks ago @ 6.45 mi pace and felt ok that was meant to be a tempo.I try to break up the harder sessions with a hard road or mtb ride.

I try not to force myself to do certain sessions, i just get out and run the session dependant on how im feeling apart from the long run which obviously needs time made for.

Carbloader - I think Also Ran got below 3.10- off a low mileage plan -  The slow runs are as Keir said either time on feet (endurance) or recovery - Theres a lot of training between now and the race and you dont want to burn all your matches between now and the run as you want to be chomping at the bit rather than fatigued come race day. There is a higher risk of this and  if you are training at or close to your MP. The HM in March is a bit away to give you an indicator to help with training. How did you feel after the last marathon?

Carbloader - your Mara time is out of balance with your training paces. You are able to run 10M av 6:45 pace, yet run a marathon at 8mm but you were also doing your long runs at 8mm too. long runs at 8mm is fine, but your MP should be down around the 6:45 pace. As a rule of thumb you should be able to do 10-12M of MP in a training run and it should be a very hard run, verging on a TT. You have to be in pretty good shape to do that sort of session too. You need to run more miles in order to build your endurance so that you can then run the whole way at 6:45 pace and bag yourself a sub3. So with 20mpw you were doing an 18 and a 7 ? and that was it ?

Low mileage (or indeed 3 runs/week) marathons are miserable, the quad burn hurts, run more miles and they get easier.

To reiterate TR - you seem to have the ability and be in pretty good shape - with more endurance and a more structured approach your target MP of 7.15 would be very soft.

TR - my pb mara was in april last year (manchester).

Yeah my last marathons  i only did 3 sessions max topping out a 30 mile week with a max of about 5 runs between 15-22 miles.I have only been running 2 years and have always tried to run as hard as i could depending on how i was feeling so all these diffent types of run are new to me still.

So do you think i could better a 3.10 with the training i am doing or should i adjust my training to match a 3.10?.

Ok just seen the edits, yeah they did hurt and quad burn was unpleasant 

It all seems to be coming together nicely now and i feel nice when i run doing the 40 mpw as opposed to feeling dead doing a 25 mpw.

Heart rate has come down nicely too

Minni - Its 1.33 but that was back last march when i was doing 2-3 sessions @ 25mpw

Think i could go 1.27/8 by march this year

Carbloader - you decide upon a goal mara, work out how many weeks away that is and then decide wether to follow something like PnD or do your own thing, you shouldnt have a target time at this point. You need to up the frequency and mileage and stop running at max pace, it has nothing to do with marathon training. You can kick the arse out it for a while as a newbie but after a while it wil kick you back and you will get ill or injured. You need a period of steady base miles, then a period of building long runs, midweek long runs and some MP type work. You then have a priod with some progressive type long rusn and some faster sharper running and then after a taper you are ready to rumble. Your goal race target pace comse form some of the paces you run towards teh end of the campaign or you run a 10M or 1/2 mara and use that time as a figure to calculate from...........................but basically the advice is to find your handbrake, put it on and start bulding some frequency and mileage. ~50 to 60 mpw would be fine as a peak mileage.

TR - Cheers, well i got till the 21st April to sort my sh1t out.

HANDBRAKE applied.