Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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19/01/2013 at 18:38

Jools, Speedy and Minni - Leading the way again!

Managed 10 on the roads at 7.45 pace just pleased I could get out after a slow week. Got my full analysis back and its different to what i was told but they have set my training ranges which are much faster at tempo LT and VO2 than other plans. Will see how I get on - retest in 6 weeks 

19/01/2013 at 19:55

Good running Jools / Speedy / Gul

13 for me today inc a parkrun in the snow, in 1:45:45 (8:08mm)

10k race at Stubbington Green is still going ahead tomorrow, but looks like being a cold one....

19/01/2013 at 20:19

Lucky you RFJ, have a good en. 

19/01/2013 at 20:20

Right guys and gals I need some opinions.

Plan was to run BM and try and get sub 1:30.  I felt quite confident of a pb (current pb 1:32:xx) whether or not that would be sub 1:30 I'll never know.  I've been feeling really strong over the past few weeks, speed is always hard for me, but my paces on easy runs are getting quicker with no effort.  Then to do the Meadows half in 6 weeks time at MP followed by the Northumberland HM the week after at full effort again.

I'm not sure how easy it would be for me to get sub 1:30 on the Northumberland course because I don't know how hilly it is.  However the first lady last year (on a slightly different course) was just under 1:35 so there's a real incentive there to race it.

The Meadows HM a week earlier is 7.5 laps of road and paths. A course that suits me - one hill, seven times.  Because it is largely a fun event it attracts lots of 'fun' running students so congestion is a bit of a problem in later laps.  I've done it twice and both times have meant running on grass (sometimes very muddy) to get passed people (those slower runners never move over ).   Its for this reason I was happy to run it at MP this year.  However, I am confident I can get sub 1:30 on the course.  Last year they cut it short and my garmin measurement was 12.51 miles in 1:26.xx, which would equate to about 1:31 if it had gone the full distance, and I finished strong so would have held on.   I have been reassured the distance will be the full HM this year and its chipped.

So here's my dilemma.  Do I forfeit the full effort on the Northumberland Half and go for the safer bet at Edinburgh.  Do I stick to my original plan meaning I might not get under 1:30 but bigger picture and all that.  Or do I do the unthinkable and race both, one week apart.  (Moz won't be keen on this but I can be very persuasive )

I have no problems knocking the 20 milers out and have 6 weeks before the first one and 6 weeks after the second one, so loads of time.

Sorry to waffle.  What do you think?



19/01/2013 at 20:55

I'd love to offer some insight Minni but I can't. If you want the pb, pick the best course and just do 1?

Unlike you Minni my form has been sh*te for the last 2 months and the BM was going to tell me where I'm at in race conditions. Really sad to miss that chance with no other races in the calender until mid-Feb.

Speedy that run sounds unique and refreshing if nothing else.

Joolska- did you really 20 miles in 8:23 avg. in deep snow? Crikey



Edited: 19/01/2013 at 20:58
19/01/2013 at 21:09

Minni - not really sure that I understood what you are actually asking. But racing two 1/2's on consecutive weekends wouldnt be something I'd do. Also dont think it's wise to invest mentally into buildup races, its a waste of mental energy. Dont taper for them either.

Edited: 19/01/2013 at 21:10
19/01/2013 at 21:17
Is the dilemma that meadows is flat and possibly PBable but
1. Could be measured short
2. Might be congested
But Northumberland is an unknown quantity and not as flat?
I'd try to race the flat one (having checked the course is properly measured this time) that you're familiar with and do the other as an MP effort or some other "training with a number on"
Feel free to ignore that though!!
19/01/2013 at 21:29

Well done on getting the long runs done Minni, Jools & Speedy.

Dedication is 13 miles on a treadmill.  Well done Speedy.

28 laps Gul.  Very impressive.  Had you worn away the snow by the end??

Stay safe Poacher. 

Good luck tomorrow RFJ.  Should be tough after 13 today?

Minni - How close would MP get you to 1:30 at Meadows?  I'd look at starting at MP+20s for miles 1-4, MP for miles 5-8 & then push the last 5 miles if conditions (and back-markers) allow.  That could get you close to 1:30(?) but should allow recovery for a full on attempt at Northumberland HM and go for the win and hope the time comes with it.  Just my opinion though.

20 miles on snowy cycle paths and towpaths for me this morning.  Ironically it took me about the same length of time as it took me to drive 6 miles on Friday!! Hard work running in mainly fresh snow for so long and also I find the first 20 miler of the year mentally tough.  However, in the bag at average 7.50m/m and low HR so all good.


19/01/2013 at 21:35

20 @ t7:50 in snow Martin- that's quick, Very well done. 

19/01/2013 at 21:37
Minni. Agree with Frazerelli. I would go for the meadows providing the course is a full half. Go all out for it, get your PB then use the Northumberland as a long run with a few faster miles thrown in.

RFJ. Good luck on your 10k, be careful on the ice!

Four villages half has been cancelled so feel a little better having to pull out of it.

Good luck on the long runs tomorrow, nothing daft....
19/01/2013 at 21:40
Martin that's some going in horrible weather, well done.
19/01/2013 at 21:51

You know that you are going to get many different opinions here Minni. Of course, TR is right, as always. However... 


Personally I like to make the most of fitness and try to grab pbs when I can, even if that is mid campaign. So I would race the first HM - but set myself some strict times for the 3m and 6m splits. If on pace at these points, throw the kitchen sink at it.  If all good - run Northumberland to plan (although even MP might be hard after pbing in the HM the week before).

If off 1.30 pace, ease right back and go for plan B - MP (or maybe slightly slower considering the close to HM pb pace for the first bit) for the rest of the run and try again at Northumberland. 

Either way, although pbing is nice at the shorter distances, it is the Mara pb which is the one which really, really counts. 

19/01/2013 at 22:16
Hats off to those managing 20 miles in the snow. I only managed 13 off-road miles - gorgeous on the flat and the downhill but tough on the uphill parts. Had a couple of unplanned stops: one to clamber over the bonnets of some cars that had skidded and shunted on the one road section of the run (but who in their right mind attempts to go up or down a 1 in 5 hill on the snow?) and one to be a good Samaritan and try and push a couple of cars.

Hope you're still safe Poacher.

Bit of a bummer for those who have missed out on the racing opportunity this weekend.

Minni - Keir's suggestion sounds a sensible be to me.
19/01/2013 at 23:30
Sorry to hear a few races are cancelled.

Well done to all getting out for a decent run in the snow. I'm off in the morning, early doors, for a long run, time based rather than distance and see how far I get. Just pumping up the inflatable now.

Lorenzo- still running in shorts?
Edited: 19/01/2013 at 23:31
19/01/2013 at 23:37
Moof - have to confess to wearing leggings this morning. For some reason at first glance I though you said you were pumping up the inflatable cow!
19/01/2013 at 23:39

Like the philosophy on the mara PB being the goal Keir and the short ones in the build up are a bonus.

I'm doing the same as you moof - heading out in the snow in the morning and more a time based than pace kind of run. I think the snow add another dimension to it and good for leg strength.

Got a question - How many half marathons is a good idea in a marathon build up? Was toying with 2 (week 6 & week 11) but not sure how much I'd get out of the first one?

Edited: 19/01/2013 at 23:41
20/01/2013 at 06:34

OO50: it was a mixture of ice, packed snow and the odd deep bit.  In Yaktrax I could go at a reasonable pace on the ice and packed snow (8-8.15m/m) so the average shows the effect of the short sections in deep snow - probably about the pace Speedy was slowed to in her run, just not nearly so much of it.

Minni: I'd agree that you try and pb in the first one, but be prepared to abandon the attempt and reduce to marathon pace or slower if you don't hit targets.

KR: I've entered 3 half marathons (Wokingham, Bath and Reading) but will run the first and last as untapered marathon pace efforts and do a mini taper for Bath which will be raced.

Off for 8M soon then going to the ballet in London - it'd better be good to make that 6am Sunday alarm worthwhile!

20/01/2013 at 07:23

Minni I would go with Martins' suggestion. Progessive for the first and then go for it in the second one. TR is obviously correct, bigger picture. My HM PB came 3 weeks after my mara PB. If I remember from last year you recovered very well from London. Any chance of racing a HM after London?

Off out soon, schedule says 18 with 10 at MP, I would imagine that will not happen, due to snow (excuse sorted). I will be happy to get 18 in.


20/01/2013 at 07:27

Minni - If the first one is regulation distance, go for the PB and accept nothing less. The second one can then be done, as part of a longer run, at MP.

I generally do two (sometimes three) HMs during the build-up to a marathon. I try to make sure I nail the first one and then do the second one as part of an 18-20 miler, with the race at MP. It's suprising how easy MP feels in the middle of a HM. I never taper for anything but the marathon itself.



20/01/2013 at 09:03

8M in the snow.  Left the Yaktrax at home today because the pavements are now too clear for them the majority of the time and I didn't want to have to try and put them on/take them off with frozen fingers mid-run.  As a result I had to opt for the powdery snow rather than the compacted snow once I got to the Downs and so ended up with a plodtastic 8.40m/m overall.  Decided to skip the prescribed strides on the basis that 4M of the run was effectively gruelling cross-country, which was work enough in itself for the legs!

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