Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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08/02/2013 at 08:24

PMJ - good to hear from you and great news that you are back running regularly and feeling positive.

The rest of you - as ever consistent - and for many pretty fast - things are building nicely

Managed to resist running yesterday. Knee feels pretty much fine now but decided against running first thing with the ice etc, so planning 12 mid-afternoon. Nice and gekntle I would imagine. Pretty chilly again this morning, but lovely and bright and had mixed emotions driving in to work. looked like it was one of those mornings just made for a run.

OO/Lumbo - I have a pair of DS racers as well although haven't worn them this year. I love them but they are getting a bit old so will purchase a new pair soon. Not sure i'll wear them for the marathon distance though - will see how I'm going and how light I am in May!!!

Lumbo - be careful of that foot. These things can easily get out of hand. Before you know it you'll have a touch of PF and that's no fun. Might be worth googling it and if the symptoms look similar get onto it straight away. Might be worth rolling a golf ball under your foot to ease the planter out. I'm sure there will be lots on here who can advise you better, mind!

08/02/2013 at 09:19
Welcome back PMJ! Is the foot fully recovered now? Was it PF? If so was it pain free before you started back with regular running? Mine keeps niggling so my runs are very short and infrequent because I don't want to set it back further. Not sure whether to just suck it up and give it more of a test.
08/02/2013 at 09:22

Lorenzo you are a real runner.

That run would be too hot for me at the moment Gul

08/02/2013 at 10:52
SlokeyJoe wrote (see)
Welcome back PMJ! Is the foot fully recovered now? Was it PF? If so was it pain free before you started back with regular running? Mine keeps niggling so my runs are very short and infrequent because I don't want to set it back further. Not sure whether to just suck it up and give it more of a test.

Thanks for all the welcome backs. SJ, I reckon in the end analysis it was just a bad case of stubbornrunneritis. I think it started last year at Wokingham Half and I ran hard in light shoes and then I did a 21 on the Wednesday afterwards (it was planned for Tuesday) and the last 11 were painful and then even then I carried on and did an 18 ... 

I don't think it was anything serious at that stage, but I adjusted and masked it with ibuprofen and got through VLM but by then I had so many adjustments and compensations piled on top of each other I should have been in the Ministry of Funny Runs. This meant that I got PF and either a bruised bone or stress fracture. I think it has all cleared now. I am running pain free but there is some residual dull pain in my foot late at night but that is in line with increased miles and old legs.

Lessons to learn:
1) target a marathon and use HM and 10 mile races as training runs and not a chance to PB. If you want to, do this at a different time.
2) Start the campaign early, plan plenty of long runs and plan to miss some. 5 long runs is good but don't set yourself up to do 5 in the 5 specific weeks in a campaign when you are not racing.

08/02/2013 at 12:19
Lumbu, for me, I race in what I train in (asics 1160 / 1170s). To go from a 3000 series shoe to a racer is a big old change in shoe stability. If your 3000s are Ok on your long runs then I would wear them for a race, and try not to feel uncomfortable on the start line when you see all the flashy gear on display!

Having sain that I picked up a cheap pair of DS Trainers that have some support. I am using them for my new found love of interals.
08/02/2013 at 12:19
Lumbu, for me, I race in what I train in (asics 1160 / 1170s). To go from a 3000 series shoe to a racer is a big old change in shoe stability. If your 3000s are Ok on your long runs then I would wear them for a race, and try not to feel uncomfortable on the start line when you see all the flashy gear on display!

Having sain that I picked up a cheap pair of DS Trainers that have some support. I am using them for my new found love of intervals.
08/02/2013 at 12:20
Excuse the double post. Operator error.
08/02/2013 at 12:56
Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)
Lessons to learn:

1) target a marathon and use HM and 10 mile races as training runs and not a chance to PB. If you want to, do this at a different time.
2) Start the campaign early, plan plenty of long runs and plan to miss some. 5 long runs is good but don't set yourself up to do 5 in the 5 specific weeks in a campaign when you are not racing.

Glad to see you back running PMJ. There has been a lack of statistical analysis on here recently.  Excellent recommendations on learnings 1 and 2. I think I should actually add learning 1 at the top of each week of my training plan!.  If I may be so bold - may I suggest a point 3?

3. After a hard marathon and hard marathon campaign - rest and recover rather than attempting to squeeze some more fast times from your marathon fitness.

08/02/2013 at 13:03

You see, it's PMJ's point 1 which gives me pause for thought about Sunday.  That and the weather forecast...  On balance I think my view is go for it, but am tempted to run blind, i.e. with no pace showing and just see what my splits are.

08/02/2013 at 15:37

Question for you racers this weekend.

Still at the stage when every race has something new for me. I've done heat, I've done wind. What is the effect on performance of cold + raining conditions, or is it just a question of trying to keep warm until the start.  Thanking you 3:15ers as always

08/02/2013 at 15:40

Jools: Go for it, you might not have another chance as good. Go blind and race it, that way you can run to feel without mental interferrence, run hard if you feel good on the day. Good luck.

Lumbu: I too train and race in the same model of shoe. After my first few years of running I switched to Nike Pegasus 6's and stayed with that make since, currently on version 29. They give me no problems and I see little advantage for me in switching between several types.

Have been absent for a few days and not had time to post, but commiserations to those on the bench or making slow comebacks from it, a lot of good runs being put in as well by others.

Am extremely envious of those down South that can run in shorts and a couple of tops at this time of year. Still in full winter gear up here. Foolishly on Thursday night I ran in a base layer, thicker top layer, a light jacket, leggings, shorts, two pairs of gloves and a hat and suffered a bad case of stomach cramps due to the wind chill factor. The hat wasn't sacrificed due to forward planning and a community school came to the rescue on the second occassion and it was only a six mile run.

08/02/2013 at 16:29
Joolska wrote (see)

You see, it's PMJ's point 1 which gives me pause for thought about Sunday.  That and the weather forecast...  On balance I think my view is go for it, but am tempted to run blind, i.e. with no pace showing and just see what my splits are.

Ihjkhk

Joolska wrote (see)

You see, it's PMJ's point 1 which gives me pause for thought about Sunday.  That and the weather forecast...  On balance I think my view is go for it, but am tempted to run blind, i.e. with no pace showing and just see what my splits are.

A lot will depend on what exactly you mean by go for it and what you are pondering about. If you really want sub-3 it is likely you need to do something like your HM PB for the first half of VLM and so it is almost necessary for you to break your half PB. My point is not that you shouldn't break PBs, it is that there is a bigger goal and everything should be aimed at this goal and not distracted by side goals. Your run at Wokingham should be aimed at getting you in the best shape for VLM and if that means running a half PB then do it, but if it means running a full week and doing a 5 mile warm up and 13@MP and 2 warm down then that is what you have to do. Don't go for it for the sake of going for it, go for it because that improves your performance in April.

Keir wrote (see)
3. After a hard marathon and hard marathon campaign - rest and recover rather than attempting to squeeze some more fast times from your marathon fitness.

I think this is the corollary of point 1. If point 1 is plan and execute a marathon then that is the plan and it ends at mile 26.2. Once the plan is at the end you need a new plan and that plan should review the current situation. In 2011 I had no issues with following through with a fast summer and PBed at the shorter distances and suffered no set back, but last year was different and I trained and raced harder and picked up injuries and I needed that time off.

08/02/2013 at 16:35
OGL, I'm up north and I've just been out in my shorts and a single layer top. Lovely!

AR, I think cold and wet is an advantage if you are used to it in training and are running at a decent pace. A slower runner who isn't running at a high intensity and generating as much heat might start to suffer a bit!
08/02/2013 at 17:56

I ran one of my best HMs in Cold, Wet & Windy conditions although it helped that the course was an out and back route and the wind was from the side.

You mean you weren't wearing enough clothes OGL

I have a place at Wokingham HM on Sunday but not sure if I will run at the moment.  Having endured a week on the bench with a minor calf strain (which happened on a short recovery run!) I've had 3 weeks of unsettled training.  This week has been a good week for the mile count but the pace has all been relatively slow.  Will see how I feel after tomorrow's run ...

 

08/02/2013 at 20:40
Statto's back!!! Posting some good wisdom nuggets too PMJ. Good to see you getting going again.

Noticed a swift run from Gul today. Typically early but looking very tasty. Nice one

AR. I quite like the cold and wet once you get going. Just wear lots. Different story if it's windy though a la Manchester last year

OGL. There are still some bone chilling days to come up here. Good for the soul

Did a run on the flat today for once. 11 with 8 steady. Was pleasantly surprised to see steady pace came out at 6.40. Maybe all these daft hills are doing me som good after all

Hope all have a cracking weekend
08/02/2013 at 21:15

Welcome back PMJ, we all have suffererd from stubbornrunneritis!

I'm looking forward to wokingham on sunday and am going to run it as hard as I can and hopefully PB. If I have to have a few easy days of running after because of fatigue then so be it.

I've picked up injuries from tough training runs, racing and from just plodding along (pennies dropped, I need a new hobby!) My point is when you're in a bit of form make the most of it and perhaps don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Hi Lumar, I wear a pair of lightweigt trainers for races and interval training (ds racers or Adidas Tempo's) although not too sure if they make any difference as I ran my fastest 10k in an old pair of Adidas Salvations which are like bricks.

Good luck with your 3.10 goal, plenty of time yet to see if this is acheivable. I ran my first marathon in 2010 and managed 3.10.14 off of a 1.26 half the month before and a few months of decent training. A lot can be said for experience but also ignorance is bliss as you hold no fear in your first outing.

So who else is running Wokingham on sunday, Jools, Also ran and maybe SBD. Anyone else?

I'll be wearing my new Ad Tempos which are a bright dayglo orange at the front and a gay blue at the back, To be honest they look a bit poncy and I do feel a bit of a twat in them. Bib number 53, lowest nomber I've had.

08/02/2013 at 23:55

Lots of great consistent paced running going on here. Been a bit busy & tired recently, so not much time for reading back & posting.

Shoonig swans is core exercises Martin!

Nice average pace for your 11 miles Menn

Good pace for your 8 miles Gul

Good luck with your half Jools, just be carful with that number pinned on your vest - anything can happen! ANd good luck to evreryone else doing Wokingham.

Had a good track session on Tuesday of 15 x 400m reps in 1.22/1.23 average off 1 minute recoveries.I've missed the track! Got a revised plan for Manchester build up. Thinkning of running the loughborough half at MP (with a warm up/down) then instead of blasting another half on 7th April, thinking of doing a flat 10k (Regency 10k in Lemmington) instead. So 3 weeks out and a bit more to recover than a fast half - a better plan??

09/02/2013 at 00:01

Tough session there KR.

I don't know what cold does to my performance but I rarely feel cold in a race if I'm going flat out. A long sleever, maybe gloves but always in shorts. Wind is another story, and rain and wind combined is awful.

4 mile plod for me tonight, very pleasant on the beach. 8 tomorrow including a parkrun, then depending on the distance Sunday it should be a 45+ week. 

09/02/2013 at 00:06

Welcome Lumar - your 10K speed is good enough to run 3:10 marathon.  Endurance has been talked about.  I think pace management is key as well - fast 'feeling good' first miles in a marathon have given many slow miserable miles at the end.

Hi PMJ - good to hear you are back running and sharing your experience

I've hurt my back  - I just woke up with it - but I can still run.  41 slow miles so far this week and still my LSR to do on Sunday.  It's all slow though and I just need to consolidate things before pushing the fast stuff. The new shoes are lekker

After a lot of uming and aring, I finally entered an Autumn marathon. It is Abingdon, which has the advantage of being fast and local, but  it will be now the third year so I'm wanting to have a different location. Not sure I'll do it yet or choose something different or additional, e.g. Dublin marathon this year falls on my birthday. Maybe I had better get hinting about what I would like for my birthday....

09/02/2013 at 06:58

SD - good attitude. Onwards and upwards.
OO - looks promising.
Lorenzo - the plan is to run my local 10k at the beginning of May.
DS2 - hope the rest has sorted out any potential issue with the knee.
OGL - we're basking in the heat here on the Anglian Riveria
Frazer - impressive steady run.
Moof - good luck tomorrow.
KR - great intervals. Sounds like a good plan, too.
Bike It - hope the back improves quickly - take care.
12 mile in the bag this morning at a staggeringly slow 9:36 m/m. Obviously need the rest day tomorrow, which, because of the re-arranged schedule last week, will be my first rest day in 12 days.

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