Sub 3h15

You'll do just fine Jools, and I think I'll steal your calculations for my 30k tomorrow, only I'll only need to do 10k at each pace 

I did try to read back last night but it was after midnight by the time I got to the end of the thread and I was so sleepy I'm afraid I wasn't taking much in. Will try harder over the weekend!

PMJ's car-slapping exploits brought to mind a club run many years back, when some oaf thought it amusing to beckon us across at a junction, then accelerate forwards to make us leap out of the way. What he hadn't reckoned on was after turning out of said junction getting stuck in a line of traffic and being a sitting target for his door panels getting a good kicking in !!  What glee as we raced away leaving the dolt in impotent rage  . . . . .
Speedy - is it the Stamford 30K?
Poacher - another vote for "Ghost Runner" - a fine, fine book.
Btw, although I'm not quite ready to chuck the grenade under my training, the pin is being primed - 14.25 miles today (funereal pace), but still OK mechanically (apart from tight h'string and stiff lower back). 28.25 for week in 3 runs, with tomorrow to come.
Good weekends to all

TR wrote (see)

I never listen to Marathon Talk, but i get the hurt vs suffer comparison, although I dont look at marathons as an aerobic game, they are about trying to hold an easy (at the start) pace which gets harder to hold as your legs get increasingly more tired, but its never on the aerobic rivet like a 10K race, its about keeping tired legs going strong. So how fast someone can run reps doesnt really seem relevant to me. theres folks I know that are better runners than me 364 days of the year but I beat them on VLM day (cos I do more marathon specific work than them IMO, and I'm up for it more than them when it gets to fixing bayonets time at 18M).   

For the likes of me TR (old and female) the reps/intervals are probably the most workout I do.  I can bang out 20 milers every week and add a bit of MP into them and I enjoy them even more but I need the faster stuff (faster than MP) to build up my overall speed.  Without this I simply wouldn't have got any faster.

In my first few years of marathon running (marathons 1 - 8) I ran every marathon between 3:43 and 3:31 but couldn't get under the 3:30.  I'd never really done speed work because I knew better than what everyone was telling me  - I didn't need it because I had such a good endurance base....    Finally I bit the bullet and followed the P&D so introduced speed for the first time.  I ran 3:28 and realised that I needed to do loads more speed work to get any faster.  I'm now on 3:20.  

I think for those who are naturally fast (you) then the speedwork is a lot less important.  

Just out of interest what is your marathon history?

Edit:  21 easy miles (8:30) today.  That's the 5th of the campaign.  Can I put my feet up now.

Minni - totally agree with the need for speed by which I personally mean leg turnover as opposed to stride length.

How many cars do we know of that only have one gear......plod?

Not being rude to anyone BTW (before I get flamed...lol!)

Mara history: 3:32:xx VLM 2012; 3:24:xx Abingdon 2012

Yes Birch, that's the one. Thankfully not cancelled this year (2012 was abandoned due to ice on the course). Although my 5k race on Wednesday probably was cancelled. I wouldn't know, I couldn't get there anyway. It took over an hour to drive 3 miles, then another 40 mins for the rest of the journey to the gym where it was safe to attempt running at speed as the pavements turned to slush. 

Minni - I'm not knocking what you do, PnD is good, just saying that the steady running does more for folks marathons than they think it does. Long runs, medium long runs, those PnD Fridays etc are more marathon specific then the few sessions of reps that PnD have. PnD works because of the overall structure and volume. A few sessions of that hurt box stuff might give you a few extra minutes on race day, but its the rest that is more important. You are probably doing more miles now too and you are probably pushing yourself harder nowadays on race day too. I'm not a fast runner (I think  my PBs are quite unbalanced although I rarely race when I'm running fit so who knows !), I just have a strong diesel engine. Your belief in what you are doing is good. So agreed, the faster running has probably given you some leg speed belief rather than the effort of the reps getting you fitter.

TR - don't worry I didn't think you were knocking me.  I find it really interesting to hear about different approaches.  But you've got me thinking and you are completely right.  Not only was I not doing speed work - I wasn't doing anything faster than easy pace, not even MP!  So along with the introduction of speed work also came the introduction of MP and the gradual increase of miles over the past couple of years.  I think the most important thing is consistency (now that's something we will all agree on) and that has also made a big difference.  

Agreed, the more campaigns you put together, the fitter you will get, the quicker the long runs become shelling peas again etc.

This will be No 12 for me.  Of those 12,  2 have been run as doubles so two for the price of one (both have been poor performances) and 2 run off no specific marathon training.  Interesting both of these have been cracking times - not pbs but not far off. I think I'm going to follow this approach for my Autumn marathon again this year.

Minni - 12 is an impressive total. Follow what works, importantly you have self belief and self expectancy on your side now too.

Good luck with the progressive tomorrow Jools and Speedy

Hope the throat is sorted tomorrow AR

Minni Nice 20 miles bagged

I have 16 planned tomorrow with 12 at PMP, not looking forward to it at all. I suppose it will tell me a lot.

Just popping in to wish good luck to all racers and LSR people tomorrow. I have Wrexham half and am looking forward to it!

Nice running Minni, well ahead of the game with 5 20s already!

Good work Minni!

Glad to hear you're getting back into the swing of it, Slokey.

Very best of luck to Jools, AR, OO, Mennania and anyone else racing tomorrow!

I have my first race of the year and my first HM since May. In fact that day I first noticed the onset of the injury which kept me out for months. So, I'm feeling nervous, but in a good way. I got to the point where I didn't think I'd be doing this again.

My kit is all laid out ready and the bag is packed. Bring it on, 'avit, and that.

Thanks for the good wishes folks, Buttermere round 34k will be hell tomorrow I'm sure. And you'll hear all about it .

Impressed at 20 miles in the 2 days before a 20 mile race Jools- you are tough indeed. I settled for the parkrun today. I went out hard but decided at the 2 mile mark that I couldn't catch the leader and would not break the course record for V50 so I eased back slightly. Settled for 2nd place (in a weak field) and 18:36. Young Miss OO set a new PB by over a minute in 23:55. As she points out, she is 2nd on her age graded leaderboard- same as dad. Now when does that competitive streak come from

And good luck to all the other racers tomorrow- conditions looking good .

Good luck to all the racers today. Hope you have perfect conditions and all goes well.