Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

29,121 to 29,140 of 47,681 messages
21/08/2013 at 20:31

Frazer - I usually go for the first few miles a bit quick HM technique, but in my case I think it is over-enthusiasm rather than actual race strategy. I think I did one where I went zooming off too fast and then settled into my pace as usual and then Speedy came trotting past me about two miles in and comfortably beat me by a couple of minutes.

YIK my half PB is also from Tunbridge Wells but the year after. I never quite got back up to target pace after the massive hill in the middle either. I agree with the others that you'd want to be doing it in sub-1:30. I converted 1:29 & 1:28 half marathons to a 3:06 full, but have not yet managed a sub-40 10k.

Edited: 21/08/2013 at 20:32
21/08/2013 at 21:02

YIK - similar story here. 1:28 converted into 3:02 on my first stab at the marathon. I am weaker the shorter the distance raced.

10 x 800m at the track today, 2:00 recoveries. 1st rep very average, 2nd rep poor, then changed my 2 min recovery into a 20 min lie in the sun and trotted back home. That will be my one and only track session for the year - very enjoyable - feeling refreshed.

21/08/2013 at 21:54

Barry - good things to see are...old city centre, Unter Den Linden and Brandenburg gat....remains of the wall (esp. nr Bernauerstrasse underground station)....Good views from top of the TV tower... Reichstag.....holocaust island.....for a short day trip, Potsdam is good. Loads to do and the expo is in the old airport where the Berlin Airlift was centred.  V jealous

Welcome YIK, sounds like good potential if you get the miles in, although the devil is often in the detail and 3.10-3.15 is light years away from 3.00 or thereabouts

21/08/2013 at 22:20

YIK - don't listen to these guys! You don't need a 1:30 half  to run a 3:15 marathon. If you're a lady that is... 

21/08/2013 at 22:27

Give Folkestone HM a shot at the end of Sept YIK. All flat and quick, until you get to 1.1 miles to go! 

That sounds like an ideal track session AR. A pity you are not planning any more. I am sure with practice you could extend that 20 mins up to 1 hour! 

Blisters    pirate
21/08/2013 at 23:38

YIK, welcome.
The sages have already given you a good flavour of the experience of converting HM to FM times around the 1:30/3:15 markers, and if you are serious about the next hurdle it's something like 1:23/3:00.

As a very very very general rule of thumb, with a statistical population of approximately n=1 General running fitness with some 20's thrown in can get you a 3:30.
I found that I needed to do some training to get 3:15, around 35 to 40mpw.
Banking a few years of 3:10s in the 40mpw comfort zone, I needed to lift to 50-60mpw with some focussed speed sessions (aka races) to bag the big one.

Obviously TR could blag it, and PMJ has natural grace, pace, intelligence and a belligerent attitude to getting out there and training. And don't forget that Jules is SERIOUSLY overdue her 2:56.

21/08/2013 at 23:55
Bike it- I agree, these caravans are gits to sneak out of, I've already had a couple of verbal warnings from the other half. Binned my run yesterday to get back in the good books.
Went out for 12 this morning with the return leg at sub 3 pace which was pretty tough going on some of the inclines. When I got back the clan were all still asleep so I daren't stick the key in the door and get another bollocking for waking up our little angel, turned around and ran an extra 3 easy miles. The things you have to do, still 15 miles is all good training.

Frazer- don't think I've had any tactics for a half apart from my first stab at sub 90 where I pretty much kept the pace at 6.45 for the duration. Every other half I've just gone at it hard from the start and hung on for the last 3, its not pretty or fun but seems to work for me.

Welcome YIK, plenty of good advice on here. You'll get faster and toughen up the running legs by dropping some of that multi sport training and concentrating on the running miles if a decent mara is your A goal.
22/08/2013 at 08:57
Blisters wrote (see)

Obviously TR could blag it, and PMJ has natural grace, pace, intelligence and a belligerent attitude to getting out there and training.

Had to google that one to be sure: you have been reading about my campaign to allow runners to carry cattle prods to clear the streets of summer tourists.

3,000 on the track yesterday. Plan was 10:15 with laps of 82. First lap was 80 and then slowed to be on pace, then a bit behind. Kept it all tidy and pushed the last lap so the splits of 5:37 for the first mile and 5:36  pace for the next 0.85 miles give false evidence to a more even race.

These 3,000s are hard, you can't really relax at any point and I had far too much left in me at the end which should have been committed earlier. Will need to try another later in the year, always need a few to get the sights set right.

Edited: 22/08/2013 at 09:01
22/08/2013 at 09:17

Nice track session AR. They arent good for you anyway in my experience.

YIK - Welcome - All been said - my progress echoes Blisters exactly - another popular marker  is you need 5 x 20+ miles lsrs in training to be able to give sub 3.15 a proper rattle.

A foray into a double digit run in under 8mm for me yesterday, really pleased with no significant issues other than bloody hard and although I am miles away from where I was I can at least see a way back now

22/08/2013 at 10:02

Thanks for all the welcomes! A friendly forum!!!  Who would of thought it eh?!  If I would of asked this on a triathlon thread it would of ended up with posts being removed!!!

Philip - Realise the data is sketchy at best.  I have only tended to race half mara's or 10ks etc as part of triathlons really.  I reckon I'm good for a sub 19 5km on a flat tarmac course and probably a sub 39 10km on a similar course also.  But I haven't done it so I cant take that as gospel clearly.

Minni - Loving the advice!!!  I'll pick and choose the responses where I see fit.  Especially if any of them involve painful training.

So just for a bit more info, I currently train on average 8-9 hours a week.  Obviously cycling takes up a big chunk of that and I'd say my running mileage is approx 50-80 miles per month depending on races coming up.  I haven't gone above 80 for about 3 years now and I'm getting a hell of a lot faster in doing much more quality sessions.  I find that the swimming helps me so much with endurance.

I'm thinking about joining a club and doing the surrey cross country league this year. Had a look at the times and JESUS CHRIST!!!  How f'ing quick are these peeps!!! Be good to be taught a lesson I reckon!

This lunchtime I'll be doing (once the sun comes out), 2m WU, 2 x 800 at 10k pace with same recovery.

Got the T Wells sprint on Sunday.


22/08/2013 at 10:10

That's good news Menna, take it steady. 

Nice track racing PMJ! 

Welcome YIK!! It'll be interesting to see how you convert from tri to marathon. I think most do it the other way around.

Fraser, my best HM (9minute PB for a 1:22) came from setting off at a decent but manageable pace, latching on to someone and then ratcheting it up every mile between miles 8 and 12 and then clinging on. Negative split and had nothing left.  I think the warm up of a couple of slow miles with 8x100m strides just before left me raring to start.

Barry, very good Berlin to-do list above from Poacher. Take your camera to the holocaust memorial (which is about 400m from the gate), there are lots of interesting /arty camera angles to be had. If you want to go into the Reichstag (worth it to go into the glass done on the top) you might need to book in advance. Also check out the Berlin art gallery - nice and compact with a quality collection.

2 twenty minute runs for me since the weekend. Ever so slight shin niggle but getting better. Thigh and ankle are sore though!

Edited: 22/08/2013 at 10:13
22/08/2013 at 13:22
yeah I know wrote (see)

I'm thinking about joining a club and doing the surrey cross country league this year. Had a look at the times and JESUS CHRIST!!!  How f'ing quick are these peeps!!! Be good to be taught a lesson I reckon!


I guarantee that anyone who has a shot at sub 19 for 5k will be in the mix in any cross country race. I (occasionally) do sub 18 for 5k and I am up at the front over the country and chasing age group prizes. Sure, the Surrey League has fast runners, but most club runners are just out to enjoy running and cross country in very inclusive.

22/08/2013 at 13:44

Really? Definitely worth a shout then.

On that note, can anyone recommend what type of footwear you guys/gals go for in these sort of races?  Do you get a pair of spikes and change the lengths of them?

22/08/2013 at 15:27

Nice session AR - Hope you had an ice cream as a cool down

Impressive session PMJ - seem pretty tough to focus on that or the duration

YIK - welcome.  Seems like you are generally fit and fast given your estimated 5/10k times.  Specificity is the name of the game so probably I would suggest to focus on running endurance.

Todays gym session - 2x sets of weighted lunges, weighted 1 leg squat and weighted 2 leg squats - half an hour spin class - repeat the strength session - 3km treadmill run at 8% gradient

22/08/2013 at 16:18

Bike-It, those strengthening &  conditioning sessions you do at the Gym make me feel a tad guilty. I've let things go recently and am now in fire fighting mode as the niggles arise.

Good that you can see a way forward now Menna after a decent run. Encouraging stuff.

Good race on the track PMJ - I'm sure there is more to come too. That sort of distance makes me shudder. You definitey seem to be able to perform well at both ends of the spectrum.

Went for a treadmill session today after yesterdays "Track Recovery" session. Race results from 10k through to Marathon produce wildly different Lactate Threshold paces for me in McMillan / Daniels tables. I went for the marathon end of the spectrum today with 5 miles @ 5:59 pace.  That didn't feel comfortably hard to me, in fact I feel wiped out and in need of another trip to the track to sleep it off. Will use my 10k race result next time which is 6:10+ LT pace

Edited: 22/08/2013 at 16:20
22/08/2013 at 16:45

YIK – I’m not sure that I’m in any real position to offer any further advice except to say that I, and many others around here, have found the Advanced Marathoning book by Pfitzinger and Douglas to be a good resource. It’s nice to have a program and just follow that. With the proviso that it seems to work best if you fit it to your life rather than fit your life to a training program.

Barry B – that’s a good pace for your steady run

AR – nice track session! and very impressive to turn out a sub 30min 5 miler mid week

Moof – good early morning 15 (inc bonus 3!)

PMJ – nice 3k, not sure me, or my muscles, would like that sort of distance

Menna – glad that the things are on the up. It’s always easier to get back to where you were than it was to get there in the first place.

Bike It – good weights session, is this a strengthening for running kind of session or just enjoying the weights on their own merit?

I nearly saw ‘the wall’ today. I’m going on holiday for a few days, so thought I’d get in a good week before I left, so my legs could recover while away. My first 22 miler of the year, including 420m’s of climbing, to take me just over 70 miles in the last 7 days, inc 3 other sessions. 

4 big hills in a short space of time at half way took the wind out of my sails, and I thought I might need to stop on the final hill with a mile and a half to go: my HR was at 5k race levels. Anyway I made it, and now no running for 6 days.

22/08/2013 at 17:11

YIK  - Welcome and good luck with the training. Like SJ said, it will be interesting to see how you get on if you can focus soley on your running. I am relatively new on here too but lots of good sound and honest advice to be shared, so you're in the right place. The general consensus is that the majority of us have to train hard to reep the rewards of our goals.

PMJ - Very good 3000m session. You must be pleased with your end result.

I have ever only run that distance twice and I like it. I was meant to be doing a 3k road race on a flat course on Tuesday night but had to sit it out. Still not good news on my front. Ankle is still achy and sore 6 days later. Getting myslef a bike tonight as I figure as I don't go to the gym I must do something else. Will be interesting to see how the knee and ankle react to the bike.

Menn - Sounding positive!

Moof - Opportunistic 15 miler run there, nice one!

Minni - Out of curiosity what is your half PB not that it matters as you say and have proved!

22/08/2013 at 17:20

Gerard - 1:32:42. 10k - 42:50 or something.  

22/08/2013 at 18:56

I expect a picture of your new steed to be posted by the morning Gerard. 

22/08/2013 at 23:04
YIK- a link to the P&D 55 to 70 mile training plan that JD3 mentioned. A few on here have followed it, including myself. It's a great plan to improve your endurance, but worth having a decent base mileage before taking it on.

Can't do a proper link from my phone.

No running for me today as I try to claw back a few brownie points but it was only going to be a poncy recovery run and I reckon sitting in a deck chair eating sand filled cheese and cucumbers sandwiches while my son throws seaweed at me has similar values.

I'll be out early doors tomorrow just as long as that creaky f***ing caravan door doesn't give the game away.
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