Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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12/12/2010 at 08:11
Pipes that's a lot of relevant info and points to what I've heard before that although most calculators say 83 mins translates to sub 3 you're much better off with a hm time in the low 80's. Interesting that you and Oslo Neil both understand the need for slow long runs. How many runs did you do over 20 miles? You must have clocked quite a few runs over 3 hours as well?
12/12/2010 at 08:19
Pipes, we need the me, me, me on here, it's how we all understand eachother and our backgrounds. More of it! It sounds to me that your make-it-up-as-you-go-along approach has worked out much like a standard schedule anyway.

Right, I'm off or I'll be late for the race. I'm hoping to pace a friend round, just need to find one who wants to run at 8 pace.
12/12/2010 at 08:33
Thanks, Speedy Goth and MM. I did 5 runs of 20 miles plus, 3 of which were over 3 hours (the max being 24 in 3:32 which is 8:50 pace). The other two were pacier (eg. 23 in 2:55) because I was on my own trying out some MP stuff or I was with a different running friend.

MM - my HM PB before my first sub3 was 1:25:55 so being low 1:20s is good, but not necessarily necessary (!), although the earlier PB was probably a soft one.

Off to marshal now - I was going to wear my Santa suit (as the Santa run I was going to do last week got cancelled) until I heard I'm positioned on a pretty dangerous bridge where I have to stop traffic if it's coming in both directions...I'm not sure they'd take me seriously in costume!
12/12/2010 at 09:43

Great to see some more new faces. Welcome Jane, Pipes and Neil. Busy weekend on the thread  I see!

Good luck Speedy with the racing,  sorry I mean pacing.

I really enjoyed my 12 miler yesterday morning. Aimed for MP+30% for first 4 miles and was somehwere around +25%. MP+20% for next four and was around +15%. Last four +10% was just a fraction under. So 12 miles in 1:43, avg 8:35m/m. Total for week 30.2 miles.

Enjoy your LSRs today, guys. (Bit frosty round here this morning ).

12/12/2010 at 09:47
Pipes - Sounds like time on feet is one of the key areas and like you said the fact that you hadn't done them with MP sections meant you could do the shorter quality speedwork without the heavy legs. I think it shows that the slow runs slow and the fast runs fast arguement it starting to rub off on me. I'm trying to tweak my schedule at the moment, so i'm going to try seom of these ideas out this time round.
12/12/2010 at 10:13

Frosty out there this morning and a spot of ice in places, but otherwise pretty much back to normal.

20.5 miles for me this morning - an out and back route along the North Downs Way so a decent mix of level trails and a few hills thrown in for fun.

Just over 3 hours on my feet which meant I was just back in time to take elder Lorenzito to a rugby refereeing course and see Mrs L and younger Lorenzito disappear out of the door to head out for a run with the club younger L runs for.

So now it's decision time: a nice relaxing bath or writing the outstanding Christmas cards? 

12/12/2010 at 10:21

Good progressive 12 miler there GD.

A bit fresh out there this morning.  Couldn't find the hat and despite initially taking the gloves I decided it wasn't cold enough as I waited for the Garmin to pick up the signal so put them back inside.  Bad mistake as I discovered 5 minutes later as he finger started to resemble icicles.  16 miles in just over 2 hours with the last 8 miles at 7:15 m/m.  A bit of a struggle for the first half but picked up some enthusiasm once I'd reached the turn.

Brings me up to 54 miles for the week and time to start the VLM 2011 schedule

12/12/2010 at 10:22

Do the cards Lorenzo, the brownie points you will gain for that little task will be incredible!! Nice 20.5 miler.

Solid progressive run there Gul.

Welcome to Pipes and Neil and Jane (and any others too)

I haven't posted too much as I am still not quite over the back issue and it's rather boring listening to people be miserable or describe their injuries etc, far better to listen and be inspired by solid training or a stonking race.

Hopefully, hopefully, the end is in sight for the injury and I shall resume (slow and cautious) training shortly before I sink into insanity!!!!

12/12/2010 at 10:23
x-post: well it's the bath for me Lorenzo accompanied by a warm cup of coffee and the Sunday Times!  Nice 20 miler there.
12/12/2010 at 10:56
Nice running this morning people. Hope Speedy's "non-race" went well.

MM: I didn't really have a clue about slow long runs during my last marathon campaign. I just followed the schedule to the letter - and often felt quite tired. It's only once I bought P&D and also started reading some of these forums that I started to get a better idea about structured training. For Paris I had 4*20miles, 1*18 & 1*17 - but everything averaged under 8minute/miles. This time around I'll be slowing things down. The last 2 weekends I've done a 17miler and an 18.5 miler - both at around 8.20m/m.

Lorenzo: Can you not write the cards whilst in the bath? How is the snow & ice in Kent these days? I'm flying over next week for Christmas at mum and dad's, so hoping to get out a few times.
12/12/2010 at 11:00
Some great tips on here from you all. Welcome to Neil, and hello also to fellow female runners Jane and Pipes! Cracking half and marathon times there Pipes and I should be delighted if I could emulate them one day.

Fit in 11M LSR today averaging 8.27m/m. It occurred to me today that I could benefit from using a HRM to ensure I am in the correct zone for the type of run I am doing. I have always just gone by perceived effort but think it might be time to dig mine out and give it a go if I am serious about trying to go sub-3 one day.
12/12/2010 at 11:19
Great long runs from Lorenzo Gul Dar SBD and oslo Neil. Hoping Speedy's non race goes well too.
14 miles exactly for me this morning at 7m58s pace in 1h51mins going through the 13.1 miles in 1h44mins. That brings up 61.23 miles for the week which I'm very chuffed with. Now sitting in bed wearing my Skins with my legs elevated on some pillows having had my recovery drink and eaten a banana.
12/12/2010 at 11:24
Can't quote off this iTouch but I'm expecting some ribbing from the eagle eyed amongst you who noticed Pipes' 85min time translating to a sub 3.......
12/12/2010 at 11:36

MM - make it a 1:23 and I'll mention it.

KK - depends if you have an IM goals in 2011 or not. IMO the best thing you can do between now and Jan 2nd is to try and run frequently rather than long. Regular 5M runs will toughen your body up and make you more durable. You may have to put the Jan 2nd date back a bit too. If you have IM goals in 2011, then you need to focus on a weekly LSR, maybe a midweek 13 or 14M and 1 or 2 other runs. If 3:15 is a stretch target then its still going to be tough off that mileage. if you can run 6 days/week and cut out the 4 and 5M recovery runs  (and do them in the lido instead) then you will be running plenty of miles.

12/12/2010 at 11:47

Gul - Nice running, please remind me are you doing VLM (or another) this year or just concentrating on getting fitness back?

KR - Did you get any advice on what to do during this period before the results are known?

Lorenzo - do both.

SBD - Another nice run and a good starting point for the campaign ahead.

Sue - Shame about your back and I heard that you are not doing Lochaber but are possibly going to do Edinburgh instead. I never did get round to posting the pic of us Lochaber this year, now where did I put it......

OsloNeil - Sounds like you are a few weeks into a schedule already or are you just ticking over and maintaining things?

MsE - Would definately reccomend a HR monitor, if you get used to them and know how to read the output they can tell you so much about how you are actually performing.

Took a sneaky drive round my running routes yesterday afternoon and they are all basically unrunnable. the majority of the course is free of snow but there are several patches of 400metres or more where the snow is still six inches of slush and running on the road is just not safe (blind corners and 60mph traffic).

So another 20 miles at -3 degrees on the treadmill at 70% WHR, leggings, shorts, one top and gloves. Legs were cold but bearable, hands were frozen, torso and head - sweating like a hot pig. Crazy days, but at least it is helping to get the weight off and I'm now they lightest that I've been for twenty odd years. 

12/12/2010 at 12:10

Hello OGL. No - don't post that picture!!! 20 miles on the 'mill is some going. I would have slowly lost the will to live I think!! Do you plan to do Lochaber again? I am gutted. I love that race.

MsE - I would recommend a HRM. I wouldn't try to fit into any prescribed 'zones' though. Just wear it for a month and note what HR shows for what perceived effort. I think the whole HR thing is such an individual thing that this is the only way to go. I know without looking what my HR is likely to be in the region of at any given time for any given effort. I find the data useful though.

KK - thanks, hope you feel better too. My kids have both just had gastric-flu, which was pretty awful. Little germ-ridden balls of snot, that's what anyone under the age of 10 is at this time of year!! I agree with TR, lots of easy miles - maybe with a touch of MP work thrown in once a week for good measure?

Nice miles SBD

12/12/2010 at 12:15

Welcome Neil and nice to see you back Sue - hope the back gets better.

Some good long running this weekend - SBD, Barry, Lorenzo, MM

The conditions where you are sound pretty terrible OGL and that is pure dedication to the cause running on the treadie dressed up like that.

KK - Can't give you any advice re: minimum mileage, I think a better question is what key sessions do you need to do and what mileage do you need to put in to each of those sessions each week to make them count. Also, I always start my marathon schedules a week early to allow for the inevitable injury or illness.

 Keir wrote (see)

Cheers for the tip AC. Will use elevation as well to break things up and looking forward to tempo runs and intervals with the Tready setting the pace and only having to follow.

However why kms? I do everything in miles normally. In fact, as the Tready is all in mph I am trying to work out the mph speed equivilant for every time between 8.45 - 6.30 min pace. Anyone done this already?Mph not available on McMillian.

KMs go more quickly and doing the mental arithmatic of converting mph pace to kmph and vice versa makes the time go quicker too

Lastly - the impact of cold weather running - I was reading Noakes on Friday hoping that he would say someone had discovered that running outside in lower temperatures has a positive training benefit. Alas not. But for those of you who have a copy I can tell you that the story on page 254 is pretty funny and recommends an interesting use of socks for male runners who want to avoid frostbite

Edited: 12/12/2010 at 12:19
12/12/2010 at 12:37

AC - it never ceases to make me smile (in an ironic way), that I spend many winter hours running on a cold coast in the early mornings in some pretty cold temps and wind chills, in various layers of clothing for the Sun or humidity to come out for a warm run round a land-locked city.

KK - if no IM then you can do  PnD type plan. Maybe the 55 mpw one. and ont worry about the hilly terrain just go on perceived effort. I will add though, that I'm not one that does 20M runs off road on the trails, I'm training for a pancake flat 26M on the tarmac, so I'm teaching my legs to expect that on long runs. So IMO you should run long on the road even if its hilly.

12/12/2010 at 12:59
Wow - lots to catch up on. Hi everyone and thanks for the welcome (Barry B, Oslo N, MM, GD)

A.C - NY was AMAZING. i love the americans. lovely enthusiastic bunch that they are, 10 deep and going crazy at mile 24
Now you don't get that at Loch Ness do you Frazer?
last 5 miles i cant ever remember as i was legging it to the end with one eye on my watch in a world of my owm. it annoys me that i cant "enjoy" the place/ scenery/ high fiving my way along 1st Ave etc. as i'm too busy getting a PB. My friend actually stopped and took a pic on the verrazano bridge. its a cool pic but i'd not dream of doing that. none the less he's the one with the great pic in his loo and i only have the memory in my head.

KR - just off to do 14 miles along the grand union canal. (nice day here in london)
Pace - 7.45- 8 min miles
Have safari version 5.03 - still doesnt work so you'll not be getting any pics/ quotes boxes from me

Pipes - you are inspiring me to do pyramids and shorter speedier stuff. i do all my long runs alone at MP but am rather liking the sound of giggly long runs at 8.30 pace with my girlfriends. i may have to ask you more about that.

off for a 14 miler now

see you all later
12/12/2010 at 13:10
Matchstick Man wrote (see)
Can't quote off this iTouch but I'm expecting some ribbing from the eagle eyed amongst you who noticed Pipes' 85min time translating to a sub 3.......

Yeah, but she's got a sub 1:22 to her name as well which helps

18 for me round The Great Park today - 9 with the group then a 2nd lap on my own. 2nd lap slightly faster, but not by much, and I really found the last couple of hills pretty testing - must do some more hill work pretty soon. Ended up with 18.16 miles in 2:29:53 which is 8:15 pace, and HR spot on at 149 average, but it was quite a bit higher the last 4 miles, and I wouldn't have wanted to go much further. I now predict a lot of sitting down for the rest of the day.

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