Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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TR
17/10/2013 at 21:00

PMJ - depends upon your definition of how good a good triathlon run is, I'd say 36min or better. They arnt running much slower than they could do without the swim/bike warm up, even as much as 10sec/mile slower (which is a considerable pace change) is only ~60 sec over 10k. Alistair Brownlee ran 29:XX including a walking finish at the Olympics, but he wouldnt have Mo Farah losing sleep.

17/10/2013 at 22:05

Wise words, MsE: a good reminder when I was 10s/mile off my planned 5k pace reps.  Then I remembered I had 5 hours' sleep last night (I need about 8), was in court all day and was therefore a bit dehydrated.  Still, workout done and a taper isn't a taper without a workout in which you feel a bit knackered and lethargic.

Blisters    pirate
17/10/2013 at 22:30

PMJ, I'm wondering what's behind your question. Planning to do your next 10k after a bit of a warm up? Aaaarrr

Less speedy people, and those doing longer courses seem to have a significant drop off in performance. Quel surprise. But as TR says, "significant" means different things to different people. At top end running 10s a mile is the difference of 4:20 ish on a marathon: ie the difference between 1st and 11th at London, or just short of a mile on the road.

As for the likes of the support crew, I'd like to give more information in a couple of days' time.

18/10/2013 at 06:06

GM - yes, I agree that it would be beneficial to start the 20 milers before March, but I like to build up the weekly mileage and long run very slowly. That's why I said that six months isn't long enough!
MsE - thanks for the McMillan article - good stuff!
4 snail-like miles d&d.

18/10/2013 at 09:22

Good to hear that the 'taperers' seem to be keeping it together. Keep it up - almost there.

Last long run of 2013 for me today. A 20 miler where I managed to simulate those last few marathon miles when you are knackered and are trying to maintain some kind of pace. I achieved this by starting with 5 miles @ 6min/m pace. Made for a tough last 5 miles.

18/10/2013 at 12:17

Hi Everyone, mind if I barge in?
I'm looking for the magic 3.15 at the Brighton marathon next April. Not sure how to hit that time but hoping for tips on here that will at least see me break 3.20.

I did Paris this year and got a PB of 3.23. I had injury woes in training and during the race itself. Had to stop at 16 miles, stretch and massage my calf muscle before nursing it to 20 and then just going for it in an all or nothing approach for the final 6.2. Luckily it worked. Injury aside, I'm sure I would have hit sub 3.20 that day but is there such a thing as a perfect marathon?

My 3.23 was a Boston Qualifier as I'm an old git who's just turned 46. So with creaking bones and knackered muscles I'm looking to run 3 timers per week with a good mix of LSR, intervals and tempo and with an optional 4th run down the gym on a treadmill. Train smarter is this year's theme and I'll see where that takes me.

Cheers

SB

18/10/2013 at 14:05

Welcome SB, stick around on here for some great advice and motivation. What sort of injuries did you have and why do you think you got them?

I think that to go sub 3:15 you definitely want to up your number of weekly runs to four. Otherwise it's very difficult to get the required mileage in (45-50mpw minimum). 

6.5 miles for me this morning, with a couple of kms at 6:00mm. Feeling good about my 10k this Sunday, but must be realistic about times - anything sub 40 would be aceptable, though I should be able to do a bit better than just scrape that. It's sold out - 2,500 runners, making it one of the biggest turn-outs of the whole year here in Asturias, only beaten by the San Silvestres (the annual New Year's Eve races) in Gijón and Oviedo.

18/10/2013 at 14:12

Welcome Badger,

it is a bit quiet today; plenty are approaching marathon day, so lets tip toe around and not wake them!

Stick around for plenty of opinions on training etc. At the moment I am on a high mileage 'plan', but intend to drop back down for next year. I'm currently rereading the Furman FIRST book "Run less, Run Faster" which I may have a go at next year. It is worth a read, but seems light on medium length runs midweek, and is fairly full on when it comes to pacing.

it would be useful to hear about the training you did for Paris, and any times you have for half marathons etc.

Well done on the Boston Qualifier- will you be running it next year?

18/10/2013 at 14:42

Blisters said (as we have lost the quote button)

PMJ, I'm wondering what's behind your question. Planning to do your next 10k after a bit of a warm up? Aaaarrr

Less speedy people, and those doing longer courses seem to have a significant drop off in performance. Quel surprise.

Well firstly no intention of ever doing a triathlon. I can run, I can ride a bike reasonably well but can't afford to spend as much on a decent bike as a decent car. I swim as I sail, surf and canoe so if I fall in I am happy to bob about or swim to shore but there is no requirement for speed, all that is required is survival.

I am just puzzled by the whole thing. I see a lot of triathletes at running races and they look the part but run like their Mums so they are either poseurs or the triathlon is an event whereby you can be good even if you run 50 mins for 10k. Seems the former is the truth.

Edited: 18/10/2013 at 14:43
18/10/2013 at 14:46

Jools - it's behind you now, onto the next one. Plenty of reasons for it, bank it, and focus on next weekend. That's the run that counts.

Sounds like a tough run from AR. Is Furman's approach better suited to those with a considerable endurance base already in place, so it's then a matter of piling on quality?

Lots to digest and think about from MsE.

Welcome to SB - I'm new round here myself, but they're a very welcoming and friendly bunch, so make yourself comfortable!

The well deserved recovery miles continue for Gul.

Ant and all other weekend racers, have good days!

18/10/2013 at 14:49

PMJ - Of course, here is a link which shows the local running club's running fixtures up to Feb 14. They can be quite slack when it comes to releasing dates in advance but as soon as I have anymore I can send them to you. http://www.jerseyspartan.com/media/PDF's/Distance%20events%20Sept%2013%20-%2014.pdf 

One race Spartan's have omitted from their calendar is, the Jersey Autumn half marathon and that takes place Sun Nov 17. I am unsure whether I will do it at the mo. It's a nice course with a race track finish which is always nice in my book. Also, there is an independant group who have set up their own website called Run Jersey and they are organising a multitude of events to include trail and road running. Their website is runjersey.co.uk, check it out. If you do decide you are coming over please do let me know and shout if you need any other info etc.

Ant - Good luck for your 10k, you're sounding confident! Big race numbers hey!

AR - Are you racing Abo?

SB - Welcome! Good time in Paris btw, how mara's have you completed so far? Boston is on my list!

Gul - You are the master of your own destiny as we all are! I must say that I am suprised you are not aiming at a PB for a 10k in the foreseable future with the kind of shape you're in. My motto is always strike while the iron is hot but admittedly I have got burned more than once!

 

18/10/2013 at 14:54
Also-ran wrote (see)

 20 miler where I managed to simulate those last few marathon miles when you are knackered and are trying to maintain some kind of pace. I achieved this by starting with 5 miles @ 6min/m pace. Made for a tough last 5 miles.

Good to see you training for the last third of the race AR.  I intend to do some of my LSRs like that too from now (not sure I'll go as fast as 6m/m though)

Welcome Badger - I also looked at the Furman style programme and seems too agressive on the pacing for me. 

15 x 1 minute run 1 minute walk for me on the grass at the local park.

Blisters    pirate
18/10/2013 at 15:10

wot? Like this PMJ?

Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

Blisters said (as we have lost the quote button)

PMJ, I'm wondering what's behind your question. Planning to do your next 10k after a bit of a warm up? Aaaarrr

Less speedy people, and those doing longer courses seem to have a significant drop off in performance. Quel surprise.

Well firstly no intention of ever doing a triathlon. I can run, I can ride a bike reasonably well but can't afford to spend as much on a decent bike as a decent car. I swim as I sail, surf and canoe so if I fall in I am happy to bob about or swim to shore but there is no requirement for speed, all that is required is survival.

I am just puzzled by the whole thing. I see a lot of triathletes at running races and they look the part but run like their Mums so they are either poseurs or the triathlon is an event whereby you can be good even if you run 50 mins for 10k. Seems the former is the truth.

I find that triathlon is quite an inclusive event. There's always some spoilsport who cheats by having done some training, but the majority don't seem to have done any. The amusing element is always the bloke with all the gear and no idea. It's not sexist, it's a testosterone replacement therapy for fat blokes. You'll not see a woman of the female variety on a disk wheeled carbon rocket unless she's built like a strand of knotted hair. As for the observation that tri-ers can't run? Absolutely rock on fact. I've seen them standing out at the start, rippling toned and tanned body, then waited for them at the finish line. It's all to do with the basic philosophy: swim a bit, run a bit, bike a lot.

Nowt for me today. Why? I'm turning into a triathlete.

18/10/2013 at 15:44

Cheers guys.
My running history is light on mrathons compared to some. I did the London in '93 and '94. didn't have a clue what I was doing and trotted home in 4.45.
Did my first 'proper' marathon at London 2006. Did 3.47 after hitting the wall badly. Vowed never to hit the wall again...touch wood I haven't.

Learned from the mistakes and did 3.25 in London in 2009. Had loads of hip/groin/hamstring pain that year which resulted in the discovery of some bone deformity in my hip joint called FAI. All standard stuff so had it drilled and re-shaped in 2010 which meant rehab for 9 months.

Paris was my first marathon since the Op. I ballsed up big time there due to over-training in the January snow. Did a 20 miler in off-road shoes and knackered my calf/achiles. Idiot! Set me back weeks. However, it did teach me to run LSRs as slow as possible (it's all about time on feet) and put quality sessions in to get the speed sorted midweek. I only need to do 3 x 20 milers too rather the the six I have done before. That's why I feel I can do 3-4 runs per week to PB in Brighton.

My HM PB is 1.30 but my 10k best isn't so great (42.40).
Did a casual 7 miler at lunchtime yesterday at 7.10 pace which felt good and is a sign I'm getting some natural speed back. Official Brighton training starts in December.

Did intervals on Tuesday which was 1 mile w/up - 10 x 60sec mental with 1 min recoveries - 1 mile w/down. All of the mental bits were sub 6 pace.
I'm interested to see if these sort of sessions are how you guys go low?

Already I can see there is quality on here. Good running boys and girls!

SB

18/10/2013 at 16:30

GM - no I'm not doing Abo. While I am quite content doing double marathons, triple marathons would be for the loons . 2 weeks to NY so I'm just about to start tapering.

Abbers - AR. Is Furman's approach better suited to those with a considerable endurance base already in place, so it's then a matter of piling on quality?

I'm not sure - I think it would appeal more to a triathlete than a pure runner. I'm not sure how qyuickly I will lose endurance, but I'm a willing lab rat. I think I'm on the verge of losing my marathon mojo and am thinking about doing something different next year  (VLM for fun, and focusing on 10K and HM).

18/10/2013 at 17:22

PMJ - I've wondered about the Guernsey Running Festival at Easter - a 10k on Good Friday, XC on Saturday, XC relay on Easter Sunday and then a half on Monday. Some seriously good athletes take part as well.

 

Welcome Badger - I managed sub 3:15 on 3 runs per week (plus a very gentle 4 mile recovery run) at a similar age, so it is possible. As I recall I averaged less than 30 miles per week over the 16 week cycle but I had to make sure that all sessions counted.

18/10/2013 at 20:07
Beware Of The Fish wrote (see)

PMJ - I've wondered about the Guernsey Running Festival at Easter - a 10k on Good Friday, XC on Saturday, XC relay on Easter Sunday and then a half on Monday. Some seriously good athletes take part as well..


Just check out last year, Steph Twell and Emily Pigeon, looks like Aldershot took a bus ful over.

18/10/2013 at 20:21

Abbers - You are right take on your first marathon conservatively, a massive learning experience, does n't get much easier the more you do, just realise what to expect.

GM -  Did n't take too long to change your mind about a spring mara., Good luck for sunday.

SB - Welcome and good luck with the 3:15 attempt next year.   Not A Furman fan, paces for intervals were very hard to achieve.

Still no running for me calf still not right, back on the Insanity this week, mixed in with core/stretching/rollering sessions.  Off to Mexico next week so hopefully running by then as weather is looking rubbish.

Good luck to the Abo crew, my first time not there in 5 years, have a good one.

 

Blisters    pirate
19/10/2013 at 00:01

Emily Pigeon? Haven't heard her name for a while. She was the 13 year old wunder-kid in Gloucester who was beating everyone, but then her Dad (as chief coach) fell out with the club style coaches and she er, dropped from the scene.
Nobody outside of the clique had any beef with her or her mentor, it was just the usual sort  of in-fighting that pisses people off. Sad really. However, it's good to hear that she has got back on the scene, if geographically remote from the starting blocks.

Meanwhile I'm in denial/taper mode.

19/10/2013 at 09:16

AR - good running on tired legs - that's some session!
SB - welcome to the thread - good to have some new blood. And there's plenty of us old gits here.
Ant - all the best for tomorrow. Hope you can give it a good bash.
GM - for a number of reasons, I've never raced more than twice in one year - it would be nice to bag a sub 40 though.
Bike It - good progression.
Barry - hope the insanity sorts you out soon and you'll be off the bench.
Good luck to Moof, Blisters and anyone else racing this weekend (I'm sure I've forgotten someone, sorry).
10 slow miles d&d to round off the week. Looking forward to starting base-training on Monday.

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