Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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12/12/2010 at 18:00

Hello, good evening and welcome to Jane, Pipes and Neil.

Great (non)race report and even better dead-casual performance from Speedy.

I've been reading all the way back to Thursday, which is when my phone went dead and the last time I had an internet connection. It only got fixed at lunchtimr today .

Seen Better Days wrote (see)

Running slower is the key to running faster - just ask Ant

Jane - I get abuse on here for doing too many of my miles too fast, although for ther VLM campaign I have sort of promisded to take things easier on easy days. In fact, I've started with this already.

These couple of weeks are going to be a bit weird what with having to work early both yesterday and today meaning noiLSR was really possible, and the fact that next Saturday afternoon I'm doing a 5-m race, followed by the works' Christmas dinner. Still, I'm hoping my 40 mpw-til-the New-Year plan will hold up. This week has looked like this:

Mon - rest 

Tues - 10.1m incl. 3x2kms @ 6:29mm + gym session (40 mins bike, weights, abs and 400m swim)

Weds - 8.8m @ 7:24mm

Thurs - 6.3m @ 7:17mm

Fri - Gym session as per Tuesday

Sat - 10.25m @ 6:53mm (nice and hard, as it were, but doable)

Sun - 7.25m @ 7:33mm (easy does it)

Making for a total of 42.7m, which I'm happy with.

12/12/2010 at 18:10
Hello Ant!
makes sense now...
but the million dollar question is does it work??
does running slower actually make you run faster ?
whats your marathon PB please? (7.33 not my idea of easy does it )
12/12/2010 at 18:23

Jane -  I went to VLM hoping to go sub-3 and I did 2:59:06. I now appreciate that if I did more miles slower I'd be able to assimilate a greater workload and so possibly have greater endurance to hold onto a faster pace for longer.

Let's see how this running slower lark goes this time around.

12/12/2010 at 18:27
wow! GREAT time
ok - understand - keep me posted
12/12/2010 at 18:27
Keir wrote (see)

Like you Lorenzo, I hit the North Downs way today. Planned to do 18m, BarryB style (no food, gels, water, just breakfast as fuel).

Nice running Keir - sounds like we need to work out how far apart we both live along the North Downs Way and then run with the aim of meeting in the middle! I normally head out west, but have done a couple of runs starting from the Box Hill part but if I'm running in the dark I'd rather have a slight inkling of where I'm going, this might be one for the spring / summer.

On the "no fuel strategy", Macmillan actually recommends (as an optional top up) not even having anything to eat before you go out although interestingly water and electrolytes are OK

To quote:

Finally, (and this is optional) a great way to ensure that you will deplete your carbohydrate stores on these long, steady runs is to not eat any carbohydrates immediately before or during the run. Any carbohydrates ingested will be used by the body for fuel, and we don't want this. We want to deny the body carbohydrates in these runs so that the muscles will become better at sparing the carbohydrate stores, more efficient at burning fat and used to running with lowered blood glucose levels. Now, many people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it works. It takes time to get adjusted to it if you have always been carbing up before and during your long runs, but with time and practice you can do it. I will note, however, that it is important to drink water and electrolytes throughout these runs so that you don't get dehydrated. 

12/12/2010 at 18:31
Lorenzo - i did this when i started running a year ago and lost 3 stone but i cant seem to cope without fuel on long runs now (feel light headed and slow down so much i almost stop) ...
12/12/2010 at 18:51
kittenkat wrote (see)

I'm just mooching round the Internet looking at different training schedules, I'm going to follow a 16wk plan for VLM, which if I've counted the weeks properly, starts on Jan 2nd.

How much mileage should I do in the next few weeks?

And what is the minimum mileage per week that you think a sub 3.15 is possible from?

Generally for a fit person.

That's the 'how long is a piece of string' question, and I don't believe there is a definitive answer. Some people here run 5 or 6 days a week and average 50 miles a week. At the other end of the scale I'm 47 and a 3 day a week low mileage runner. In the 16 weeks prior to my 3:11 at Brighton this year I did smack on 400 miles, so that's an average of 25 miles per week. I had 5 weeks over 30, with peaks of 42 & 43, although one of those was because I did longs runs on a Sunday then the next Saturday so 2 counted in one week. In 2009 when I was defeated by the heat at FLM and did 3:16 I ran 305 miles, so that's around 19 miles per week average. I had 6 weeks over 30, with a peak at 35. For both these campaigns however I was more or less ready to do 20 on week one of the schedule as I'd been building the long run distance up for a few weeks, just as I'm doing now. My first marathon in 2008 (3:26) I averaged only 17 miles per week, and only did one 20 due to injury.

So I think it's probably safe to say I'm one of the lowest mileage runners on this thread, if not the lowest. When I see those figures written down I often wonder how I've managed to run those times, and wonder what I could do if I did more mileage. I may do a little more this time if I stay fit, but I doubt it will be much more. But it seems to work for me - it fits in with my level of fitness and my lifestyle, and the fragile nature of my legs, but I'm sure for others it would be a complete disaster.

The most important thing I would say is that whatever you decide to do you have to make sure it's all good quality running and that it all counts. That's what makes the difference for me I think.

12/12/2010 at 19:18

Thanks for the good tips and encouragement Lorenzo, Poacher, FW and Jane. I will be taking my running kit along and hope to squeeze in a few early morning runs. I also fancy trying some water running in the pool in between cocktails.

Good running and nice report Speedy.

12/12/2010 at 19:49
Lovely race report and good nonchalant result, Speedy!
12/12/2010 at 19:51

Some really good weekly mileage and long runs from many people. Although I didn't see another runner today, good to hear that you lot are out there as well as me! 

Good advice there BOTF.

Running on empty with no breakfast? Fcuk that Lorenzo! I live near Folkestone, you live near Box hill. 70 miles apart I reckon. 35 miles each for us to meet up and 35 miles home again. Fcuk that as well!

Speedy, you must be 'well chuffed'. Considering how ill you were last month, to run a hilly HM, chatting all the way and get those splits and that time is fantastic. Well done! I reckon it was the disturbing dream that gave you a shot of night time adreneline. Maybe in future eat more cheese the night before a race?

Jane, use this McMillian Running Calculator to get a guide on pacing. Wish the music didn't come on straight away though. Makes me jump everytime! I don't think the RW schedules are the best. A bit light on M pace runs. However if you win the SSX or follow the SSX threads then the advantage of it is you will be doing the same training sessions. The P&D schedules are the most popular on this forum.

Speaking of which, interesting that most newbies are not worshippers of P&D. Will they be converted or will we be open to accept new beliefs?

12/12/2010 at 20:15

Cheers for the Running for Fitness tip Fraser. Just made a MPH to Pace table for myself to stick onto side of Dready. Have you got your HM training plan yet?

12/12/2010 at 20:20
Kier - thanks for this
yes made me jump too
i meant to say RT instead of RW (thats the ref you gave in an older post and i printed it out)
called marathon advantage - 18 weeks to your best marathon - (its the same as above P&D link ) so ill use this then ....
Phew - hefty mid week runs on a wed though
will need to get up at 6am for those
But it looks like a good plan and definitely the most heavyweight of any i've seen from likes of VLM etc.
12/12/2010 at 20:26

Jane, there is an up to 55 miles per week plan. For that you would need to buy the book:  Advanced Marathoning. It is pretty much the same plan, but knock off a couple of miles from each session. The book is well worth adding to your Xmas list anyway.

Edited to add the link

Edited: 12/12/2010 at 20:28
12/12/2010 at 20:26
Keir, when they invent dairy free soya free cheese I might try that.

I'm not a P&D worshipper, but it is on my Christmas list. I write my own schedules and given 2 negative split maras beating my targets and one only slightly positive split mara with a 1st lady finish, I'm sticking with what I know for the time being!
12/12/2010 at 20:29
you know what...i'm going to give this one a go actually in the run up to April
i can fit it in i reckon ...
and if its too much i'll just switch to the 55 mile a week plan ......
going to amazon now
12/12/2010 at 20:30
CC2 - Speedy Goth wrote (see)
Keir, when they invent dairy free soya free cheese I might try that.
I'll save any comment for Windy!
12/12/2010 at 20:31
Advanced Marathoning arriving Tues am
Thanks Kier
im feeling organised now
i have a PLAN!
12/12/2010 at 20:36
Eeeeeew. Keir, I'm going to have disturbing dreams again tonight now!
12/12/2010 at 20:36
Keir wrote (see)

Running on empty with no breakfast? Fcuk that Lorenzo! I live near Folkestone, you live near Box hill. 70 miles apart I reckon. 35 miles each for us to meet up and 35 miles home again. Fcuk that as well!

So that's a "no" then is it? Don't know why but I thought you were a north Kent boy which would have made the distances a bit more manageable, even if getting back home would be a pain in the proverbial.
12/12/2010 at 20:53
Keir - haven't got a full plan for the HM yet. I assume the guv'nor will advise me on a week by week basis as for Loch Ness. Definitley a bonus to be working to a plan that's adaptable and reactive to circumstances as opposed to an "off the shelf" job. Not up for a 35 miler early doors then - are you man or mouse !
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