Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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04/06/2014 at 13:28
Abbers wrote (see)

BB - looking very good. What does your taper hold between now and the 100k?


This is what I have planned until the ultra which is pretty much the same as I've used successfully for the last few PB marathons. I'll stop taking any caffeine for the last week and fat load for 5 days before carbo loading.

11 with 5 at MP

6 easy

12 easy including fast Parkrun

5 miles easy with 6 x 10 sec hill sprints


6 miles with 2 at MP 

5 miles easy

4 easy including 3 mins fast - carbo load

Travel - Rest

Portumna 100k Ultra Marathon

04/06/2014 at 13:47

Looking good Badbark, what % mix do you go to in order to fat load / carb load? Glad to hear that you are going to go for it by the way - I expect you'll be right at the sharp end 

04/06/2014 at 14:37
SlokeyJoe wrote (see)

Looking good Badbark, what % mix do you go to in order to fat load / carb load? Glad to hear that you are going to go for it by the way - I expect you'll be right at the sharp end 

SJ – I’m following the ‘New Rules of Marathon and Half Marathon Nutrition’ by Matt Fitzgerald which recommends 65% calories from fat for 5 to 10 days then 70% carbs. I’ve tried it out before my 50k ultra win and easy 2:56 marathon recently so I’m confident it works well for me!

Edited: 04/06/2014 at 14:37
04/06/2014 at 15:18

BB - taper & diet look well honed, and clearly work for you given your recent successes.

Checking in for a regulation 5 miler at lunch hardly seems mentioning in comparison!

04/06/2014 at 15:36

Badbark, thanks for that reference. I've been puzzling over nutrition (generally and pre-race) recently and that book looks interesting. Does it talk much about teaching your body to burn fat more efficiently (as opposed to simply burning simple carbs)? Good skill (since you don't need luck) on the upcoming ultra.

Congrats and condolences, accordingly, to recent racers. My main complaint with this marathon lark is that it frequently comes down to how you feel on the day. That, and the fact that we race so infrequently that each race *really* counts. 

04/06/2014 at 16:31

Hi Folks. Wondering if I can join in on this thread? I have mainly lived over in the HADD thread but think you guys could probably help as I build up to my next marathon. I've got 3 under my belt and my next goal is to go under 3:15 to qualify for Boston. My times have gone 3:31, 3:21, and my most recent attempt was an unfortunate DNF. It was a very hot/humid day and I collapsed in the final quarter mile (hanging with the 3:15 pacers...we were actually on pace for 3:13, which made it sting even more). Anyway, medical folks found out I very low on potassium so lesson learned for the next round. I signed up for a fall marathon because I'm an optimist (and must get this taste of defeat out of my mouth!!)! Anyway, reverse taper for the next few weeks and then we'll see what happens.

04/06/2014 at 17:28

The name on this runner's t-shirt looks familiar


04/06/2014 at 19:03

Nice spot SB

Get some copyright action going Lorenzo

Welcome VT - Seems like 3.15 is already there for you with better conditions. I am a P&Der so will be interested to see how your HADD training goes.

04/06/2014 at 19:59

Listening to Marathon talk, see badbark was podium last week and Lorenzo on rate your run this week.

Need to say a few words to Gul, Leslie and others with less than satisfying outcomes in the past week or so. This is my perspective but just offer it. For me, there are important things in life such as family and you holding onto a job is a useful thing in many ways too. This constrains us in many ways. Running, on the other hand, is something where I don't feel constrained. I admit that I run for health benefits and if I didn't run I would be very overweight and head to an early grave with blocked arteries but I could tick over on 3 or 4 easy runs a week happily. Running allows me to take a risk. I could plump for a sub-3 marathon or risk a sub 2:50. Last time it paid off, this year I over-cooked it and suffered the DNF. I don't regret it: I knew the risk and took it, and I could take the risk. When risks come off it is great, when they don't just shrug your shoulders and carry on. In years to come I will look back at the highs and forget all the DNS and DNFs  Ihave had and have yet to come.

04/06/2014 at 20:15

Tonight is Watford Open 3000m and there was a plan to go with friends but that plan failed so I decided to put it off for a month and do some track work instead. Need speed so 8x400m at 3000m pace was the plan and I reckoned 80 seconds a lap (5:20 mile or 10:00 for 3k) would do. The last track session I did was 800m reps at 90 seconds a lap so a big step up. Nice long recoveries of 100m walk and 300m jog so about 2:30 recovery.

Came out at 1:22.0, 1:22.1, 1:22.3, 1:19.4, 1:20.3, 1:19.0, 1:17.5, 1:19.4. Started outside 1:20 and then I got up onto my toes and started using the arms and the times came down. Did a silly fast penultimate one in 1:17 which says 5:09 pace.

Easy plan now: recovery tomorrow, Ealing Mile Friday, recovery Saturday, Wargrave 10k Sunday, recovery Monday, Vets AC 5 mile in Battersea Park Tuesday.

04/06/2014 at 20:21

Mennania, thanks. I have tried P&D in the past, but ended up injured. The HADDing approach seems to keep me healthier over the long haul, but admittedly I have evolved quite a bit over the past few years. Maybe the biggest thing is working with a great Fizz team to learn now to correct my imbalances and work through injuries that previously would have stopped me. But as an FT type guy, the HADD stuff seems agreeable. Look forward to comparing notes.

PMJ, well put. I can appreciate that perspective. I can honestly say that pushing through the final 5 miles before going down was likely the grittiest thing I've done. The marathon always seems to let me look directly into my guts to see what I've got. Not saying I hope to repeat that feat of willpower though...maybe a few notches down would be OK next time. Also, as endurance athletes, we are all scientists in our own way. Understanding the physiology of running and what works for each of us is a challenging (and intriguing) journey.

04/06/2014 at 21:00

VT - welcome. What marathon did you collapse at and what have you signed up for In Fall? I'm in a similar situation just done my second last week, was tracking sub 3.15 and the wheels fell off after 24, now signed up for Dublin in October and undecided on the programme to follow. I'm insulin dependent diabetic so the science is both fascinating and crucial...


04/06/2014 at 21:12

PJFrizzle, do you know this tiger?

Weary 15 miles last night, with emergency poo stop and both achilles tendons blowing up (the kinvaras gnaw at them when I stop and walk so I'm back in skechers for now).  Much better this morning but still took it easy - 6M jog in to work.  I am calorie counting again to try to get back to marathon weight, not much to come off but I think it will help.

Edited: 04/06/2014 at 21:16
04/06/2014 at 22:03

Marrows that is class...  He's a newbie whose pancreas still work a bit, mine on the other hand are totally gubbed! Sound like an eventful run last night, when is your race?


04/06/2014 at 22:03

Welcome VT, you came to the right place

04/06/2014 at 22:16

Hi PJ. Sorry to hear about your race result. Yes, you definitely have a few extra variables to juggle. I live in the US and was running the Vermont City Marathon (was just a little over a week ago). I signed up for the Baystate Marathon which is down in Massachusetts on Oct. 19th (so am hoping for cool fall weather that day). When is Dublin held? My plan last time followed the structure of P&D in terms of LRs by week, but outside of the LR (many done as progressives) I also had two subLT sessions per week (usually 13 miles w/10 at subLT effort). The rest of the running is easy. So I ran a lot of miles at MP or faster (but luckily didn't break down). I think one benefit of all that is despite putting my body through the ringer in the race, I feel incredibly good (recovered?) just one week out. Not that I'll do any hard running (or longish runs) until the recovery period is done, but take it as a good sign I may rebound and keep a lot of what I built this past cycle.

Edited: 04/06/2014 at 22:17
04/06/2014 at 22:30

VT Dublin is week after Massachusetts, so we should both be roughly at the same stages of prep. got a couple more easy weeks in recovery but like you feel fresh and struggling a bit to keep from delving into quality sessions so early. Plan is to just complete 3 runs this week then take it up a notch.


04/06/2014 at 22:38

VT- welcome in , sounds like you are nearly there with a 3:21 , it does a depend on the day much more with mara's than anything else .

PMJ- nicely put and nice reps , onwards and upwards and 5min milling sounds good 

Marrows - nice 15er watch those achilles.

2 miles walked..slowly too  

Got my 6 year old some nike's she is taking over running duties now 

Edited: 04/06/2014 at 22:40
04/06/2014 at 23:12
PJFrizzle wrote (see)

...struggling a bit to keep from delving into quality sessions so early.


My brain has been whispering to me too. At least I'm not the only one hearing the voices...

04/06/2014 at 23:28

hello VTr!

marrows - what protocol are you following for your Achilles? I'm curious as mine have been chatty of late. Keep it easy as I'm sure you will. 

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