Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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13/12/2010 at 14:36

Thanks for the welcomes! Well I'm in VLM with a V40 GFA  - blimey that's a mouthful. I was hoping that would be a sub 3 attempt, but this glute thing has put paid to the extra padding of winter 20 milers I was planning, so I dunno yet. I'd definitely be cross with slower than 3:05 though. 

What worked in the past? In the spring I had speed from the Furman schedules but didn't do anywhere near enough cross-training. In the autumn I'd bagged miles of cycling and think the extra endurance showed as I didn't fade at all, but then I didn't have the speed, grrr. In an ideal world I'd try out the P&D schedules, with more MP miles and 1 or 2 cross training days in place of easy runs.
Or . . . go all-out Furman / FIRSTing (that just sounds so wrong), but I think that's better suited to summer training. I can't swim and only like the outdoor bike. Oh dear I'm all a dither!

The other thing that worked in the autumn was returning to running a 23-24 miler at slow pace - time on feet kind of thing. That was missing in the faster spring running, and I'm sure it helps.

It feels like there's still a lot to learn - Brussels was my 7th marathon and I overfuelled, with interesting results

13/12/2010 at 14:52
Hi Scooby - make sure you get some airline compensation for the lack of case
the last time BA lost my ski kit over xmas i went shopping for a grands worth of north face new kit and they picked up the tab

Hi luna man ... i am i being naive asking what hapens when you overfuel?
13/12/2010 at 15:00
Well Jane. I'm guessing it forced its way out of one end or the other!
13/12/2010 at 15:04
oh yes, let's just say the spectators on that particular tram to Tervuren saw more of me than I, or they, would have liked.
13/12/2010 at 15:05
oh right - yes - with you now
13/12/2010 at 15:09

Was this you Lunarman?

13/12/2010 at 15:12
luna man wrote (see)

The other thing that worked in the autumn was returning to running a 23-24 miler at slow pace - time on feet kind of thing. That was missing in the faster spring running, and I'm sure it helps.

Care to expand? What pace is slow for you and how long would these runs take you? Do you take on board fuel during these runs or not?

13/12/2010 at 15:22

What's all this with you lot being so knowledgeable on your Bard quotes. I might be able to contribute if we were doing Peter and Jane (do they still exist or are they too horribly 1950s middle class now ??) or something a bit more basic. First prize (as ever) to Band B

Why was that chap trying to eat oxtail soup while running Keir ? No wonder everyone's staring at him. A hot beverage in those conditions is evidence of insanity

I'll ask Mickey and Donald to come and visit you in your dreams then Poacher. Clearly you were enchanted by their charms !

13/12/2010 at 15:25

Damn those pesky race photographers, popping up just when you don't need them! No, thank goodness, Brussels is full of woods and leaves, it's just that I didn't spot the tramline 2 metres away!

MM -  the FIRST schedules have you running your long runs at faster paces than most of us might otherwise do them for a 3:15, culminating in a 20 miler three weeks out at MP + 15s, which is hard. So none of them have you out training for the length of time you predict to run the marathon in. Maybe it's psychological, but being on my feet for 3 hours 10 during a slower 24 miler in autumn training just seemed reassuring. It's hard to know what truly 'works' of course, as there are so many other factors.

Pre-FIRST, and again now, LSR pace would be 8:20 - 8:40 mm, depending on terrain. Fuelling wise I never eat before the LSR, usually running early morning, but take a couple of gels, jelly babies, or oat bars if I'm going slowly on a trail route. In Brussels I don't think I took on board any fuel during the race, I was just a little bit nervous after the haf way pit stop!

13/12/2010 at 16:53

Any of you kind ladies or gentleman run in or have run in the Mizuno Wave Precision 11?

Edited: 13/12/2010 at 16:53
13/12/2010 at 17:39
Keir - by the look on that guys face, you know it smells baaaad too!
13/12/2010 at 17:55

You have to admire the comitment to keep going or perhaps he was just desperately trying to get away from all those people pointing at him.  Definately encourages you to hit the immodium before the next marathon

My biggest fear for my 1st marathon was needing a pit-stop.  Thankfully it was never an issue and hopefully this is down to my finely honed pre-race food strategy rather than luck 

Welcome lunaman.

Day 1 of my VLM2011 18-week schedule and I'm ahead of schedule already  Have to head in to London tomorrow and won't have time to run, so did a 6 mile treadmill recovery today instead.

13/12/2010 at 18:12

I take 2 capsules of Immodium 1 hr before the marathon so I never have to worry about the issue affecting the bloke above, lol

13/12/2010 at 18:25

Great to see my favourite picture returning to the thread...

Rest day for me today, as tomorrow's case has settled so I will be able to do a proper run in the daylight!

13/12/2010 at 18:39
That picture shows that it is really important to get your fuelling strategy right. Wonder if he went through the same scenario on his long runs?

Day one of P&D for me today. 14.5kms(9 miles) with 6.5kms(4miles) at HM/15km pace. As I've got a really soft HM time, I started the schedule fairly carefully with an avg. of 6.50m/m for the tempo section. Oh well - off and running now. Only 17 weeks and 6 days to go
13/12/2010 at 18:46

Welcome luna man!

I ran a marathon last year using the FIRST schedule and I faded very badly over the last few miles. I know some people like it but it certainly didn’t work for me and I’ll never touch it again. The 3 marathons I ran this year were all off about 50+ average miles, all PB’s and all negative splits. I also had less niggles with the higher but slower miles than I did with FIRST schedules.

Moraghan’s views on FIRST are very strong!

13/12/2010 at 19:07

In my own case, I'd never had any stomach problems before, so it was a real surprise. I blame the cheesy pasta from my sister the night before, and lots of downhill. Fortunately it wasn't the end of the world, as long as there are leaves (or loos) around. Two minutes lost (timed on the GPS!) and I still negative splitted / splat (?!).

Sorry to hear about your experience Badbark. I faded badly too, but know that was because I did nowhere near enough cross training to gain a good endurance base. I just had to look to the duathletes/triathletes who were running much faster than me with lower running mileage to realise that. 

Interesting about paces and niggles - I think I run with better form at higher paces, so I found the reverse. I was trying the Hadd route in Jan 2010, slowing it right down, and came down with shinsplints. I'd been running happily 50 mpw in a previous year but all hilly off-road stuff, which is surely where we're all intended to run - after all there are so many more woods to hunker down in

Anyway, apologies, this is all about running atm!

13/12/2010 at 19:18

Yes, don't get me started.....FIRST = boil in the bag marathoning and it doesn't belong on a thread full of dedicated runners.  Although I understand the FIRST book is a fair bit different than the FIRST schedules on here, which are extremely poor. 

RSalter - I'm using them at the moment.  I had to cut away some of the shoe around the right ankle bone because it was too high - although this has been a problem for me in the past with tennis shoes.  I'm pretty underwhelmed all round by them.  They are just about serviceable as a fairly light weight trainer for slow stuff.  Sorry, it that isn't helpful!

Edited: 13/12/2010 at 19:19
13/12/2010 at 19:45

Could that chap borrow your hat mm. He promises to return it good as new

I seem to be fairly lucky as far as anal explosions go. As long as I get a good few pre race visits in to the small room it all seems to behave. There. I'm sure you all wanted to know that

Re - shoes - does anyone here use lighter shoes for shorter races. Is it kid-ology at our level d'you think or does every little help ? I over pronate and have used Nike Structure Triaxx for ages (with my trusty orthotics). Am slightly scared of swapping and stirring up previous knee problems. What's the general consensus. Overall I have to say I'm not that into spending crazy amounts on all sorts of daft trainers but maybe I'm being too head-in-the-sand about it

13/12/2010 at 20:01
FW I have three pairs of lightweight shoes: Nike marathoners Nike Mayfly and Sauconys (forgot model name). I use the marathoners when racing now as a lightweight shoe but the free Adidas shoes I got for the SSX comp - Supernova stability trainers - I used for my 10k pb. At the the time I wasn't going for a pb but I guess fitness matters at our level more than trainers
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