Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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14/12/2010 at 09:52

Ormeski - SIS go gels for me but I prefer the tropical flavour.

Badbark - Very impressive early morning run.

14/12/2010 at 10:05

Sorry, forgot to welcome you, Luna man. And hello to dm1974. But of course, 1972 was slightly superior to that year.

Lovely racing Ormeski. I've used SIS gels, when my local bike shop offered them to me for a knock-down price. Strangely, they had a dent in the box. A cycling friend of mine finds they give him an immediate boost, to the point where, for a few mintues he has the look of a madman.

Speedy - All I have to say is shame on you!

BB - That's a very quick run. 40 min 10k pace in training?!

Keir wrote (see)
Luckily being veggie I will get a different main course each day instead of Turkey x3, but I do love Xmas pud so expect my new lightweight self to be a few pounds heavier by next week.

I thought the bog standard for veggies was lasagne, even at Christmas. I have to agree completely on the xmas part of the meal. Thanks btw, for your,  SBD's and Fraser's suggestions on the Liverpool HM and jiggled schedule. I've emailed my mate to see what target he's after.

First running last night, since being ill. Forgot to take my Garmin to work and was tempted not to run because of it Pulled myself together and just ran to feel without putting too much effort in. The good news is that I felt absolutely back to normal. Worked it all out when I got home and averaged around 7:30mm for 10 miles, which seemed to pass pretty quickly.

Edited: 14/12/2010 at 10:07
14/12/2010 at 10:10

Keir / Badbark - I also run in Wave Inspires but am definitely not a vegetarian.

Keir - was almost tempted to get up at 3:15 and if I hadn't been able to get back to sleep, I might have been tempted to head out just so that I could get back and post before 6am!

Badbark - impressive going. Sounds like you had some speed bottled up inside you there!

SiS gels - I stick to the standard ones (Tropical and blackcurrant); didn't like the cherry flavoured caffeine ones. I ordered some more from the website the other day and it looks like they've got another new, more expensive variant out - £1.70 for one gel!!

Xmas party season for me as well:

Tomorrow: lunch + party with ex-work colleagues
Friday: party at current company
next Weds: departmental Xmas lunch

Oh, and there's something on around the 25th as well. Am waiting to see what Matt Fitzgerald says about Christmas dinners!!

14/12/2010 at 10:11
B&B - good for you. i would have bailed out if id forgotten my garmin. i reckon we get too hung up on the "kit" sometimes
14/12/2010 at 10:16
Cheers Jane. It was only to ensure I didn't run too fast in training, of course Na, really it was because it wouldn't show on my Garmin training centre thingy.
14/12/2010 at 10:19

Ormseki - I use 'My Protein' as it seems about the cheapest including the postage and package to N.Ireland.

Here's a link to it's carbs -

I also buy their Oats, Protein powder and Palatinose.

Keir - No local 10k for a while but I might give a 5k park run a go pretty soon.

On a different topic, do you find that being a vegetarian you get less colds and flu’s etc than others? I haven’t had a cold since turning veggie 2 years ago and wondered if this was typical for someone else who marathon trains?

14/12/2010 at 10:28

Welcome Luna Man and DM1974. Much to digest on this thread - a veritable gold mine.

I use the High-5 gels - citrus flavour for general use, and the raspberry caffeine ones for racing. You've actually just reminded me I need to restock.

Blisters and beer wrote (see)

I was meaning to ask you a question BOTF. I'm not sure if you've mentioned this before but I was wondering how the raced HM will affect your 20 mile race the week after. You may do few miles a week but you'll certainly be hammering your legs!

Last year these races were the other way round, and the fact that my father was seriously ill meant at times my schedule went out the window and I had to fit things in whenever I could, and I ended up doing a lot in a short period. I ran a very light week before the 20, and because of Dad I hadn't run my scheduled 20's at that point, so I ran it on HR rather than flat out, and was very pleasantly surprised to do 2:23. I did do the first 10 too fast though and slowed a bit towards the end - couldn't stay with Joolska when she came past me, so I'll definitely be looking at a slightly lower HR for the first lap this year. The HM I went banzai for a new 1:26:15 pb, and then I actually followed this with a 21 and a 22 the next 2 weekends. I then had a light week before doing 1:25:15 at Reading. When I came out of this 5 week period I really felt so much stronger and faster, and it was a great confidence booster. I found a hard half nowhere near as tiring as a 20, even a slow one - my legs didn't get as sore and my recovery was defintely faster, so in many regards I actually regarded the half as a light week. Obviously my original plan didn't have so much crammed into such a short period, but having to regularly go home to visit Dad left me with little option If I was to fit enough training in.

This year Wokingham is the week before Bramley, and my schedule has a light week either side. I will do Wokingham flat out as it's a club championship event for me, but again I'll run Bramley to HR and just see how things go. Hopefully this time I'll have 4 x 20 already under my belt which is more than last year, so maybe I won't fade quite so much, but I will run it fairly hard just to find out where I really am.

Edited: 14/12/2010 at 10:31
14/12/2010 at 10:29
i would send off for new battery
when my garmin failed they sent me a totally new box so i have doubles of everything apart from the watch
the customer service was ACE (took 3 days)
not sure how much new battery is but they may replace it free depending on how old it is
14/12/2010 at 10:32

So when people go on long runs, if you're a gel user do you take gels along with a bottle of water to cover you for 2-3hrs? Or if you mix up sports drink do you take just that or gels as well?

I've never really got this quite sorted or understood the best way to go about it! Ideas appreciated.

14/12/2010 at 10:38

Yeah, it does KK. Let's face it, it ain't much use if it doesn't work!

Thanks for the explanation BOTF! Looks like you've got it all covered.

14/12/2010 at 10:44
KK - i know what you mean. i was on the phone to them daily. the guy was so fed up of me staying "i REALLY need you to send this back ASAP - i'm training for the VLM

i think they fixed it extra fast to get me off their case

But they are good - i was VERY impressed Garmin
14/12/2010 at 11:04

KK I have had to send my garmin back a four times. I have always got it back within a week. and if its within warranty you get a new 1 year warranty.

14/12/2010 at 11:06

Ormeski -   Each to their own but I never carry drinks/water.  If I'm using gels on a run I'll take enough for one after 45 mins then every 30 mins.

14/12/2010 at 11:25
Badbark - mental tempo run! You seem to be flying
Lorenzo - 13 miles before breakfast on a weekday? Impressed but then we expect nothing less from you
B&B - nifty little 10 miler there
Ormeski - On long runs this spring I was trying to get into the habit of gels every 3 or 4 miles to get myself used to taking them onboard prior to London. I would also take a camelbak reservoir in my Salomon rucksack with Luozade drink in that and try and drink regularly. Even on last week's 14 miler I took a gel at 6 miles.
I know Race Jase is all about doing long runs on nothing but from the SSX experience the thinking behind it is that long runs take a toll on your system so the more you can replenish your stocks as you run along the better your chances of recovery will be. So it's not necessarily about fuelling your run as much as trying to help you recover quicker. When I was planning long runs (18 miles +) I'd pay very close attention to my food and drink intake in the preceding 24hours - good breakfast, lunch and dinner with plenty of fluids. Try and get some cereal and/or toast before I go and have a recovery drink and food ready for when I finish. Try to be intelligent in the way you approach your long runs and you'll get more out of them
14/12/2010 at 11:44
@Barry B - so you'll run for 3hrs without any liquid?
14/12/2010 at 12:07
Welcome to Luna man and DM!

Nice racing Orm, in particular, as you were ill prior to the race. I have always overlooked fuel in the past although my racing history is not long with just a sprinkling of triathlons, duathlons, a few 5Ks, one 10K and one half. I am using the SIS gels at the moment which have been adapted so you don't necessarily need to take them with water. They are not quite so sickly but are still an acquired taste/texture! I used one before heading out for 11M on Sunday and I definitely felt the difference as I tend to run on empty in the mornings. I think I will try to get used to taking one every 45 mins or so and see how I get on with that - it's all a bit experimental and quite subjective I guess so my needs as a small female (contrary to popular belief) will be less than yours as a male... unless you too are 5'2.5"?

Well, week 1 of the P&D schedule and after a day of circuits for my recovery / rest day yesterday I went for my first run - meant to be 8M with 4M at HM pace. My 4 miles started at 8 m/m and then sped up to 7 m/m. I think I probably should try warming up for a bit more than 2 miles as I think it takes me a while to get going, in particular with this cold weather. I ended up running 9.5M in the end as I went on to see my son's house rugby tournament. It was lovely seeing all these 7 and 8 year olds playing tag rugby! Out of 4 houses his came 4th but they seemed to be pleased enough, I think because of the audience making it a special event. Now thawing out at home...

Edited: 14/12/2010 at 12:07
14/12/2010 at 12:09

KK - That sounds like a good idea, what with Xmas post and the probability of Royal Mail losing it with the extra workload.

BarryB / Ormeski - I never take drinks on my runs either, no matter what the length. I think it's McMillan that says  you should always take drinks and electrolytes to prevent dehydration. I intend to do this when my campaign gets going and was looking at some tablet elecs on t'internet the other day. Might get some. McMillan (I think) also says that no carbs on a LSR is a good thing if it's run SLOWLY (Edit: because it encourages the body to burn fat for energy). However, if you plan to do a progressive run or up the pace to MP to finish quicker, you should feed up much like a race scenario. I think this is much like MM says, to protect the body and make sure it's not under undue stress in training.

Edited: 14/12/2010 at 12:12
14/12/2010 at 12:09

Ormeski -   The only time i've run over 3 hours in training was the 23miles unfuelled last week and no liquid/gels taken, but I made sure I drank plenty of water during the day before the run.  Carrying water/drink etc is something I've never done and on long/slow runs i've not found it a problem.  I do a lot of my long runs during the summer early doors so due to it being cool it's not an issue for me and most runs at the mo are in the cold so again I've had no concerns.

14/12/2010 at 12:13

Just to put RJ's mind at rest, I received my Champs entry form yesterday   Now I just need to post the beggar.

On the LSR fuelling front, I'm not too fussed about gels and will happily do an 18 miler without fuel.  Tend to take something, even if just a few jelly sweets or diluted fruit juice, for anything over that.  Can't do without water, but in fairness a long-term side effect of an illness I had as a kid is a dry mouth, so I like to sip water frequently to alleviate that. 

14/12/2010 at 12:30
Thanks guys, good to hear different ideas and views, very useful! I think i'd be most comfortable with nothing for super slow runs other than water. For the slightly quicker longs runs i think i'm gonna go gels and water and just have a play with it! Ensuring general good hydration as well.
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