Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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15/12/2010 at 11:42

Nice running BB. Ooh, that's 3:10 pace

Excellent 10k time LM. Something's working for you, that's for sure.

15/12/2010 at 11:48
Hi BarryB, sorry, missed you earlier - oh yes, I remember you from such marathons as Stratford! Now if I can just shift this glute niggle I'll be joining you running at least 5 days a week. Well, not joining you literally, unless you live local?!
15/12/2010 at 11:51
@B&B - No suverner! It's for the best.
15/12/2010 at 11:56
Luna Man

Interesting post. i too discovered running later in life (40) and i too like the competition
Id like to do sub 3 hrs eventually (may be dreaming here) but happy to target 3.15 now
im keen to see what i can do
i know i can do 3.15 - am pretty sure of that
its hard to decide the best way to achieve this however and this thread has been a VERY interesting read ... all this FIRST stuff which id never even heard of
3/4 hard runs or 6 longer easy runs? the million dollar question - which will work best?
im still working it out
my head is trying to process all the info
15/12/2010 at 12:10

In the current spirit of complete transparency, I should point out that I only started a lower mileage routine after several years of 5-6 days a week running. I imagine that I had a reasonable-ish base then before adding in the speedier stuff, which is generally recommended anyway?

So Jane, if you've been happily running 6 days a week already (if you have), why would you change? All the evidence is still that the best way - the short cut if you like - is more regular running if you can do it. I chose an alternative because of an inability to raise the mileage and stay injury free.

15/12/2010 at 12:18
True - i think i'm going to stick with what i know
I just need to up the miles on a wed run from my normal 8..and add a bit of speed on other days
i need to keep this simple and not deviate from THE PLAN (either a P&D or RW one) tbc
thanks LM
15/12/2010 at 12:19

I'm not advocating high mileage instead of the FIRST plan, anyone that runs high mileage runs the risk of getting injured. I would advise (or prefer) the 5 or 6 runs /week you mentioned. Intervals, tempo and an LSR (that gets pretty close to MP) are 3 hard sessions esp for someone that is looking to that approach cos of previous injuries.
Might just be me but I see litlle point in doing the tempo and intervals if you havnt run enough miles to have sufficient endurance to be able to benefit from those two sessions. If your wheels have come off by 18M it doesnt matter a scooby how fast you have been able to run intervals. I would expect a person that did something like an LSR, a midweek 13M and 3 or 4 other steady paced runs of say 6 to 10M to be pushing their body far less hard in training and have much greater endurance on the day (might just be me but this enabled me to run a comfy sub3 in my first marathon).

I'm not knocking anyone for using the FIRST plan, just saying that I dont see it as an answer for folks that worry about injury risks. I'm a low pressure, dont take it too seriously sort of runner myself.

15/12/2010 at 12:20


I love all the thoughts / questioning /  discussion on what plan is best etc etc. IMHO I think the only right answer is that there is no single best plan - There is only the best plan for you...I also feel that there are plenty of ways to get to 3.00/ you should follow your own plan.  I think the most important thing I learned from this thread (from TR/TT/XPS etc etc) - Is to listen to your own body, and nothing else...if it tells you it needs a rest, rest...

(...but to go 2.45/3.00 there probably is only one way (miles, miles and more miles).

I think what LM / TR / MM and others wrote all makes sense - I think we all agree on the fact that the joy of marathon running is that there are no shortcuts, you generally get out what you have put in - in fact you sometimes get less back (i.e. a worse time) than you have put in, and it is very very rare to get out more than you have put in - And that is why it is such a good sport....

AR - I chose FIRST mainly because (a) I am lazy and would prefer to do fewer faster runs than more slower ones and (b) I am married with 3 kids and my wife hates me running hence I need to keep the time doing it as low as possible (c) I felt it would reduce the chance of injuries (though I am less convinced on this argument now).

15/12/2010 at 12:23

X-post with a few...

Jane - Further to my post above - Do what suits you, what you enjoy, and you will be fine.  All plans introduce some variety of LSRs, Tempos, HMPs etc, so get some variety and some mileage and listen to your body...and if you put the effort in you will hit the 3.15 and maybe more...

15/12/2010 at 12:24

BarryB - Forgot to answer the other day, Gloucester is local to my parents and where I was brought up, but not to where I live now. Too early in the year to tempt me to race it, although I might use it for a long training run in a few years.

BB - Forgot to answer the other day. I am not sure if being vegetarian means more or less colds. I used to get loads of colds when cycle racing, but I think this was due to over training and no rest weeks. I had 0 colds the year I stopped cycling and became a teacher, despite everyone else training to teach coming down with loads of them. I think running has meant I am healthier and seem to be fighting off colds better than normal at the moment. Not sure how being vegetarian affects this. Certainly you don't see many overweight veggies. What do you reckon about the colds / veggie things Speedy?

15/12/2010 at 13:08

Keir  / BB - having young kids increases the likelyhood of getting colds - there's always something floating about.

Lunaman - 37.xx PB for 10k off 30 miles a week is excellent - they must be all quality miles and no junk ones!

Good to see you de-lurking again Rat. Some good points there and like the you get out what you put in senario. I think it's safe to say all of us on this thread give 110% to our goals and feed off each others support.

Regarding plans, I think you have to try a few things out to see what's best for you. I'm always open to suggestions and value all the ideas on here. Trouble is they all make sense in theory - it's just finding out if the practice makes it work.

15/12/2010 at 13:10

On the subject of diet what about this for a pb?

And while I am here - a warm welcome to the new faces (and lurkers Rat!) and well done on the PB Luna Man. Keep on posting and sharing your thoughts.

I have to say I am struggling to find time to comment but it is good to read (especially the three a week plan which I was considering this year as a way to actually running a mara in 2011).

Decision day tomorrow KR/Jane? Nervous? Excited? Scared?

15/12/2010 at 13:11
(Looking around for the thread Guinea Pig, Steve, but unable to see him
anywhere to ascertain how his training is coming along...)

Day 3 of Week 1/18 P&D Up To 55 schedule. Today was my second rest/recovery day. I feel as if I am doing lots of resting/recovering here. Went along to do an hour of conditioning work at Bootcamp. Sort of felt like I was contributing to my marathon campaign. Can anybody advise whether tagging on a short 3-5 miles on recovery days before I do conditioning work at Bootcamp would be worthwhile or just adding junk miles and compromising the quality of scheduled runs? On the one hand I can see how it would help my legs get used to more airtime (good) but on the other hand I may just end up bringing on an overuse injury early on in the marathon campaign (not good).

Some seriously impressive and inspirational running going on. At the risk of sounding like a camp male, thank you for sharing everyone !
15/12/2010 at 13:14

Good stuff Jane, stick to THE PLAN, there's a plan for us all ! Or I am I still stuck in an episode of Battlestar somewhere!?

TR - injury-wise, personal experience was only that biking/rowing and maybe weights helped build my supporting muscles - at least that's what the physio reckons - in an otherwise hopelessly inefficient office-bred body. You could do all this on top of more days running if you had time, for sure. Or maybe go down the efficient running route. Being very lightweight I'd perhaps wrongly assumed that wasn't necessary. Running a little bit faster maybe made me run a bit more efficiently. I don't have any stats to backup any generalisations about injuries and training plans though.

Sorry to hark back to this, but Rat, I definitely agree after the woods in Brussels experience, that you usually get out what you put in!

Keir - lifelong veggie here (well okay, strictly pescatarian, ie eat fish occasionally). I don't take any supplements, but plenty of fruit. I usually get a cold or two every year, but haven't had one in the last two years. Dare I say it, that coincides with use of the FIRST schedules, hehe *whistles innocently*

15/12/2010 at 13:24

Great running Ormeski, BOTF and Ant.

Congrats, Lunaman. That's some going by any standards, but off 30mpw?!

Slight niggle in my left calf this morning, it was a rest day in any case, but I did some core stability work. Younger daughter's Christams play this morning (wipes tears from eyes). Department Christmas lunch this afternoon and Community Carol service this evening. I've got an 8 mile general aerobic planned for tomorrow, but may give it a miss depending on how the calf feels in the morning.

15/12/2010 at 13:24
Wondering how relevant an individual's weight is to which plan works best for them. For example, the FIRST plan of fewer high impact runs may not work so well for someone who is carrying more weight and has pronation issues/poor running economy, eg a lardy heel-striking quad dominant runner, compared to someone who is a very efficient and lightweight runner without any obvious muscle weaknesses (such as a weak core or glutes). Perhaps we could all declare our height/weight/muscle mass/body fat percentage/running gait in the interests of analysing this properly ? (And no, this is not to indulge any camp males who may be fantasising on this thread...)
Edited: 15/12/2010 at 13:25
15/12/2010 at 13:28
A.C wrote (see)

Decision day tomorrow KR/Jane? Nervous? Excited? Scared?

A bit of everything AC, nervous and exicted. It's been on my mind a lot for the past couple of weeks and in some way it will be good to find out one way or the other tomorrow. I'm looking forward to this marathon compaign regardless of wether I'm a Supper SIx'er or “normal” runner. I've learnt a hell of a lot in the past 6 months from this thread in particular, so I hope to be able to translate that into a good solid block of 16 weeks training and achieve what I believe is a relaistic goal.

Good luck to jane as well as it's been good to read her posts too - the more the merrier on this thread.

And if there is anyone lurking out there who hasn't voted yet…

Get yourself over to the SS competition page and vote for [b]Colin[/b] in the sub 3,15 category!

15/12/2010 at 13:35

Can I just say, while I'm feeling a bit emotional, that this seems to be a lovely place, thank you! I won't usually be this chatty either, it's just a quiet week at work, and I'm all excited about the prospect of another marathon campaign, how sad!

MsE - good point. Me = twiglet: 5'7" / 59kg / ? / ? / mid-foot probably, wears orthotics for overpronation

I keep trying to put on a bit more muscle but forgetting to eat protein (or do enough weights, which I hate).
Re. the injury thing again, it remnds me that when I did cope well with 50mpw I was running mostly on trails and hills. Which corroborates the idea that developing the supporting muscles is a good plan for me.

15/12/2010 at 13:54
Yes good luck to SS candidates
luna man wrote (see)
Re. the injury thing again, it remnds me that when I did cope well with 50mpw I was running mostly on trails and hills. Which corroborates the idea that developing the supporting muscles is a good plan for me.

Spot on, the injury-prone might find that doing as many as poss of your miles off road helps a lot. Even gravel paths and farm tracks are more forgiving than the evil tarmac

XPS - 29.59 would be a superb achievement, and would have been good for 6th place this year. There are some v impressive runners at the pointy end of GUCR. Good luck, interested to hear about your training as it progresses.  

21m @ 7.40 bagged this morning along the canal which is still frozen. A fairly gentle plod with the last 3m in 21min which is nice..... 

15/12/2010 at 14:00 nice that it's time to add some provisional targets

07.11.10 - SteveC1975 - Regents Park 10K - Around 40 Mins - 40:14 - job done
21.11.10 - AfE - Abbey Dash 10k - sub-39 as a marker/indicator - 38:22 - job done
21.11.10 - BOTF - Brighton 10k - under 40:30 - 40:02 - job done
05.12.10 - GE - Regents Park 10k - sub 38:30 - ?? - job ??
05.12.10 - SteveC1975 - Regents Park 10K - Sub 40 Mins - ?? - job ??
23.01.11- Barry B Gloucester Marathon - Sub 3:15
23.01.11 - AfE - Brass Monkey Half - sub-1:25
23.01.11 - XPS - Brass Monkey half - sub-1:24
23.01.11- efc-col Four Villages Half Marathon-sub 1.25
05.02.11 - Lorenzo - Thames Trot 50 - Sub 8 hours
05.02.11 - Poacher - Thames Trot 50 - sub 8
13.02.11 - Matchstick Man - Wokingham HM - 1h23m
13.02.11 - SBD - Wokingham HM - 1:24
13.02.11 - BOTF - Wokingham HM - 1:25, but seeing the two entries above...?
13.02.11 - dm1974 - Liversedge Half - 1.29.59
20.02.11 - BOTF - Bramley 20 - sub 2:25
06.03.11 - Scooby - Marathon Catalunya - 3:09:59
06.03.11 - MsE - Bath HM - Sub 1.30
06.03.11 - Joolska - Bath HM - tbc...
06.03.11 - dm1974 - Haweswater Half Marathon - 1.29.59
13.03.11 - Knight RIder - Retford Half Marathon - 1:26.xx
13.03.11 - SBD - MIlton Keynes - 1:24
19.03.11 - Badbark - Larne Half Marathon - Sub 1:30
19.03.11 - Speedy - Stafford HM - 1.31.59
20.03.11 - FINgers - Reading Half Marathon - Sub 1:26
20.03.11 - Ormeski - Reading Half Marathon - Sub 1:25
20:03.11 - BOTF - Reading HM - 1:25
20.03.11 - SteveC1975 - Brentwood Half Marathon - Sub 1:28
27.03.11 - Keir - Paddock Wood HM - Sub 1:25
10.04.11 - FW - Chris Hoy HM Edinburgh - Sub 1:20
10.04.11 - FINgers - Brighton Marathon - 3:09:59
10.04.11 - Knight Rider - Brighton Marathon - Sub 3.15
10.04.11 - B&B vs MM in the Regency 10k Smackdown! - Sub39.
10.04.11 - dm1974 - Paris - 3.14.59
17.04.11 - Race Jase - VLM - not sure on target just yet, but hopefully I'll be in PB (sub2:39) shape.
17.04.11 - SBD - VLM - 2:49
17:04.11 - Ant & XPS - VLM - 2:54:59
17.04.11 - Joolska - VLM - 2.59.59
17:04:11 - AfE - VLM - 2:59:59
17.04.11 - Poacher - VLM - 3.07
17.04.11 - Lorenzo - VLM - sub 3:10
17:04:11 - BOTF - VLM - 3:10 ish
17.04.11 - kittenkat - VLM 3.10
17.04.11 - Jane326 - VLM 3.10
17.40.11- efc-col VLM-sub 3.10
17:04:11 - MsE - - VLM - 3.14.59
17.04.11 - Speedy - VLM - 3.14.59
17.04.11 - SteveC1975 - VLM - 3.14.59
17.04.11 - Ormeski - VLM - sub 3.15
17.04.11 - Pipes VLM sub-3:15
18.04.11 - OsloNeil Boston sub-3:10
01.05.11 - Gul Darr - GEAR 10k - sub 42
02:05:11 - Badbark - Belfast City Marathon -Sub 3:10
08.05.11 - Keir - Essex & Halstead Marathon - Sub 3.15
22.05.11 - B&B - Edinburgh Marathon - 3:09:59
22.05.11 - Jane326 - Edinburgh Marathon 3.10
22.05.11 - XPS - Grand Union Canal Race- 29:59:59 (not a typo!)
18.06.11 - Lorenzo - Picnic - sub 4:45
02.10.11 - Jane326 - Loch Ness Marathon 3.10

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