Sub 3h15

Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterday

Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?

MM - there's no flies on me (unless I've been running in dog sh*t by mistake !). Your current mileage is all money in the bank. A few extra miles on your running commutes during the spring and you would have bagged a fair bit more anyway.

For those looking to combine a regime of running and cross training, I've run the last 2 VLMs off a regime of tri training with 20M long runs on top (only ~3 runs/week), and although the bike and swim does help your aerobic fitness, there's no substitue for impact miles and I've found the marathons to be a struggle on legs that moan from very early on.

Seen Better Days wrote (see)

Fingers - presumbly you mean 17-week schedule and what happened to week 18?  Hope you enjoyed the strides

SBD - gosh, thought I'd messed up my counting then from day 1... but no, indeed it is 17 weeks but there is a Week 0 at the end so kind of 18 weeks total.

Anyhow, strides didn't happen last night. No sooner had I posted that I was about to leave than a panic at work ensued where work that was supposed to be done but wasn't. So yours truly was volunteered" to sort it out and didn't get out the office till late. Sulked all the way home that my campaign didn't get off to a good start. Am much more pragmatic about it today - there's a long way to go.

MM - Very much enjoyed your "career summary" - so real knowledge and experience gained over the years and there's a lot there that a lot of us could take on board me thinks.

Anyway, today P&D says I should be doing 11 miles, haven't decided if I rearrange to get yesterday session done or can yesterday and kick off with 11. Either way, I'll be doing either 8 with strides or 11 today.... I'm a sucker for punishment so probably end up with 11.

Happy runnings y'all.

Oh and I'll drop some x-mas decs by later to give us a bit of festive cheer.... or is it a bit early for that?

And so, could someone point me towards a GOOD training plan. I've never actually used one before, I tend to just train ad hoc.

I really want to do it properly this time, as I don't want to lose my champ place. 

Ta muchly!

To be honest KK, this thread should be called 'Disciples of P&D. There are a few splitters / denominations, but generally we all worship the bible. Try this link for a peak at a 55-70 mile week.

FINgers - Show us your baubles!

edit to link to P&D rather than Razzle home page!

Sue C wrote (see)

Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterday

Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?

Always!! Great to see you back on here. What have you been up to?

Sue C wrote (see)

Might be tempted to join in. The old thread was so, like....yesterday

Although, 3.15 might be a stretch............. got room for a 3.20-3.25 kind of a girl with a (currently) dodgy back?

There you all are.

First night back, wife goes out and all my running buddies move!! Luckily I am not paranoid.

Welcome KK and Col, welcome back Sue.

Thanks for the post(s) MM, great read and lots of informative details.

TAR Bad news on the knee, but the story did make my laugh. Hope for a quick recovery.

My first run (shuffle) in the ice yesterday. Combination of ice and new shoes made it a most unenjoyable run. 5 miles recovery. Plan 8 miles steady today, hopefully it will easier now I know what to expect.

kittenkat wrote (see)

And so, could someone point me towards a GOOD training plan. I've never actually used one before, I tend to just train ad hoc.

I really want to do it properly this time, as I don't want to lose my champ place. 

Ta muchly!

My views on plans are fairly well known but I'll reiterate them. I'm of the opinion that following a plan (be it FIRST / Higdon / P&D / RW) will be hugely beneficial as long as you stick to it closely. My success at going under 3h15 this year came off following the RW plan to the letter. I reckon that it really wouldn't have mattered if I'd followed P&D or any of the others, it was more the consistency over the 4 months that did it for me.
As you allude, ad hoc and haphazard running won't be as great as regular running will be. You can create your own plan as I've shown Steve how to as long as you follow the basics every week:

Long run (get in 5 x 20 milers)
semi-long run
practice your MP as much as possible (preferably within the above two runs)
as much aerobic filler runs as you can do to make 40mpw your average mileage over 4 months

I don't think you'll go far wrong with that and most of the plans follow that to some degree

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

kittenkat wrote (see)

And so, could someone point me towards a GOOD training plan. I've never actually used one before, I tend to just train ad hoc.

I really want to do it properly this time, as I don't want to lose my champ place. 

Ta muchly!

My views on plans are fairly well known but I'll reiterate them. I'm of the opinion that following a plan (be it FIRST / Higdon / P&D / RW) will be hugely beneficial as long as you stick to it closely. My success at going under 3h15 this year came off following the RW plan to the letter. I reckon that it really wouldn't have mattered if I'd followed P&D or any of the others, it was more the consistency over the 4 months that did it for me.
As you allude, ad hoc and haphazard running won't be as great as regular running will be. You can create your own plan as I've shown Steve how to as long as you follow the basics every week:

Long run (get in 5 x 20 milers)
semi-long run
practice your MP as much as possible (preferably within the above two runs)
as much aerobic filler runs as you can do to make 40mpw your average mileage over 4 months

I don't think you'll go far wrong with that and most of the plans follow that to some degree

Moraghan wrote (see)

A rare opportunity to join in on one of these from its birth is too good to pass up, even though I'm targetting 800m this year so don't really belong!  Maybe I part-qualify by virtue of my extended MP runs in base training though.

Oof, me old bones...went out this Holiday morning (Día de la Inmaculada) and did 9m @ 7:24mm, trying (a bit too successfully) to go a bit slower and control the HR, which stayed at an av140bpm. Felt tired and was looking to get it over with as soon as possible. With a whole day to self-indulge, and bright wintry sun early doors, this should have been one of those runs where you fancy doing an extra 4-5m. Instead, it was a get-it-done-and get-home job. Not good.

Welcome back, Sue!

Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Moraghan wrote (see)

A rare opportunity to join in on one of these from its birth is too good to pass up, even though I'm targetting 800m this year so don't really belong!  Maybe I part-qualify by virtue of my extended MP runs in base training though.

It'd be great to have you on here Moraghan! The more knowledgeable souls on here the better.

MM - Just read back through your mammoth posts outlining your marathon history, and there is one thing that is bothering me a bit - Liz said to practise, practise, practise your MP as much as you can, no? This was more or less my approach, although I do realise it probably fatigued me more than I was aware of come the big day, hence not reaching my "potential potential" even though I did nail my planned objective.

What exactly did she prescribe re running at MP?

I still can't see how running slowly 90% of the time will suddenly transform itself into running 26.2 miles dead fast  *runs and hides from the wrath of the wise*

Ooo - thank you for the warm welcome back, I have a lovely warm glow now

What have I been up to? Mixed year to be honest. I ran 3.27 at Lochaber, which was a pb but it was a pretty poor conversion (although a negative split.... the holy grail!) and I still don't feel that I have yet  run a marathon that reflects the time that I feel I am capable of running.

An odd summer, which went no-where really in terms of training or capitalising on marathon fitness and a change of coach in September (he is particularly grumpy, miserable and runs 800m as his specialism although is a fan of extended MP running.............................)

A good run from September, which saw big gains in fitness, mileage and missing out very narrowly on sub 70 at the Wistow 10 in October.

Sadly, I have struggled since then with a back injury that I can't seem to shake off so I am rather grumpy and miserable myself today ,as I thought that I was improving but clearly not, if today's run was anything to go by

So, I am eating my way through a large box of Marks and Spencer Extremely Chocolatey biscuits and have just entered Edinburgh Marathon, instead of Lochaber, which buys me 5 more weeks of rehab, where I am not running just to marathon train.

Ant - waves! Maybe running slowly 90% of the time allows you to cope with a higher mileage than you would be able to otherwise and the associated benefits of that?

Ant van Oviedo wrote (see)

MM - Just read back through your mammoth posts outlining your marathon history, and there is one thing that is bothering me a bit - Liz said to practise, practise, practise your MP as much as you can, no? This was more or less my approach, although I do realise it probably fatigued me more than I was aware of come the big day, hence not reaching my "potential potentail" even though I did nail my planned objective.

What exactly did she prescribe re running at MP?

I still can't see how running slowly 90% of the time will suddenly transform itself into running 26.2 miles dead fast  *runs and hides from the wrath of the wise*

Hi, Ant. MM's mammoth posts make for very interesting reading. But I am also still slightly confused. I seem to remember when MM said to keep your slow runs slow and save your best for the fast runs that he said that none of his average paces started with a 7 i.e. 8min/mile + or sub 7min/mile. But unless MM was secretly targeting sub 3hr5, surely MP would be 7:xx min/mile? So where does practise, practise, practise MP fit into this? My understanding at the time, was that the fast stuff was to be tempo or faster. Sorry to be a nit-picker, but I think it would really help to understand this.

 Hi Sue C and welcome back.

Nice to have a few more people joining in with this thread.

That sounds interesting, TR, about marathon running off 3 runs per week.  I'd be happy to settle for something like that in due course.  I know the FIRST programme has been referred to a few times, but does anyone here have any first-hand experience of using this schedule?

Great to see Sue C checking in again.

30 years today since Lennon was shot, eh?  Bloody blimey, 30 years.