Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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09/12/2010 at 10:24

That sounds like a challenge Joolska!

Just flicked through my P & D.  Their general aerobic runs description is indeed woolly!  I try and avoid going quicker than easy range on non-workout days in an attempt to preserve the quality of the quality sessions.  If I am continually holding back too much on non-quality days and still getting the quality done (and have been doing both for a while) I tend to regard that as an invite to do more mileage or perhaps do a little more on quality days (or do some more non-running stuff if impact is an issue).

09/12/2010 at 10:27
X-post.  Sounds like a couple of challenging sessions, KR.  Very interesting!
09/12/2010 at 10:41
Moraghan wrote (see)

That sounds like a challenge Joolska!

Just flicked through my P & D.  Their general aerobic runs description is indeed woolly!  I try and avoid going quicker than easy range on non-workout days in an attempt to preserve the quality of the quality sessions.  If I am continually holding back too much on non-quality days and still getting the quality done (and have been doing both for a while) I tend to regard that as an invite to do more mileage or perhaps do a little more on quality days (or do some more non-running stuff if impact is an issue).


This sounds like what has worked for me this spring - go easy when you're supposed to go easy and hard when you go hard. How many quality workouts do you / your charges do per week? Is it the same irrespective of the distance you train for or not? Your last sentence is resonating with me quite a bit at the minute
09/12/2010 at 11:57

Well done on making the shortlist KR - I think the fact that you're the sole male out of the three should work in your favour

Lot's of interesting debate on MP and P&D. 

Windy wrote (see)

As I'm flicking through a typical P&D schedule, and having previously taken a "lace up the daps and run" approach to training,  why don't they write training programmes in the same language, so I'm assuming in P&D terms  "general aerobic" is equivalent of "steady state" as referred to by Moraghan. 

But there seems to be a lack of MP mentioned in P&D, in the 55-70 (18wk) schedule MP is only practised in week 9 and week 13 in a LSR, then a 2m dress rehearsal during the final taper week.   (SBD as resident P&D guru help me out here).   Is P&D light on this?  Would you advocate ramping up MP practise for the LSRs??

Perhaps I need to resign as thread "P&D guru"  All I can say in my defence is that, having never trained for a marathon before and being devoid of any natural speed, I used the P&D training programme to nail 3:05 and 2:59 in successive marathons in 2010.  Whilst you need to tailor a training programme to your strengths and weaknesses, my approach was to follow P&D to the letter to see what worked and what didn't work.  So far I haven't found much that didn't work

I interpreted General Aerobic as "a bit faster than recovery pace" but essentially time on feet.  I ran these no faster than the recommended MP+15% but capped the effort according to HR as well (75% WHR).

Is P&D light on MP?  I think there are 4 MP in LSR sessions with the last 8, 10, 12, 14 miles at MP.  If I've done these as training runs I've usually struggled to hit MP but if I've run them as part of a race I've usually gone faster than MP.  For this campaign, I've got 5K, 9mile and HM races lined up for each of these sessions.    I'll probably aim to do the first 2 at goal MP and the latter 2 at slightly faster than MP.

I always ran the LSRs and MLRs using the 20%/10% progressive approach.  That said, whilst at the beginning of the schedule the faster last 8 miles was at MP+10%, as the campaign progressed this pace increased (I would aim to run this at just below marathon pace HR) and reached MP+2% just before the taper.  So I may have been guilty of running a lot more MP miles than I thought

TR
09/12/2010 at 12:23
Most marathon schedules contain the same sort of stuff (INFRS after all), but some add in the quality later etc. The best thing about any schedule is that it gets you to don your trainers and get out the door often, it also tells you to do long runs etc. its not really the schedule that works its the consistency.
09/12/2010 at 12:28

Totally OT from P&D at the moment... why oh why does it seem my legs always ache a lot more after a "recovery run" than after the hard session that I did previously!...ouch.

Ok... so back to P&D - as far as the GA runs that they suggest - I treat these as "just go out and run" runs - as SBD says - basically time on feet runs, not as slow as recovery but not hard either... you know, just a run.

09/12/2010 at 12:31
Matchstick Man wrote (see)
How many quality workouts do you / your charges do per week? Is it the same irrespective of the distance you train for or not? Your last sentence is resonating with me quite a bit at the minute

2 main quality workouts typically irrespective of distance.  Will also add in some strides at other times.  For those at shorter distances the strides might turn into a slightly more focused turnover / basic speed session.

Some can handle a 3rd quasi-quality session whilst others operate better with a main quality session and a second quality session which has less volume than a typical quality session (e.g. 5 * 1k @ 10k pace rather than 8 * 1k @ 10k pace).

I was having so much trouble fitting things in that I went to a 10 day cycle.  Now I'm having to take a few days off because I ran my legs into the ground.  We all have our limits and they change ever year - especially when you're an old fucker like me!

Agree with TR - half of the battle is being consistent and believing in what you do.

09/12/2010 at 12:34
cheers Moraghan - I've planned out the next 10 weeks and had built it around 2 x quality sessions a week with the rest as volume so it's good to know I'm on the right lines.
09/12/2010 at 13:14
I've just responded to your comment on the other thread, KK! My PB's quicker than his and I know there's no chance of my running a sub3 in May.
09/12/2010 at 13:24

I smell a conspiracy to influence our voting in favour of the other 2 candidates.

Lets be positive and vote for the slow guy!

09/12/2010 at 13:38

Just cos you've run a 3:09:xx it doesn't mean people in the 3:20's are slow. Elitist!

09/12/2010 at 13:50
kittenkat wrote (see)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that one of the sub 3s is going from a 3.27 mara!

You have to assume he can run 1.15ish for a half.....


I must be a sadist..... I voted for him...

09/12/2010 at 14:21

thanks for the welcome folks.

Jesus....got to keep up on this thread, lot to catch up on..

12m on the snow and road yesterday, 6-7 tonight with the club tonight.

am also following P & D with a few tweaks,it helped me last year in the Anglesey mara, got me a GFA place for London.

KR.... just added my vote, good luck.

09/12/2010 at 14:24
Good luck, KR! Have cast my vote and will keep my fingers crossed for you. The spot was a good 'un wasn't it?

8.5 miles done in a P&D aerobic fashion this morning followed by circuits at Bootcamp to focus on conditioning. Average pace was 8m/m again. I always start reaaally slowly and then end up 2 min/mile faster as the run progresses without intentionally planning any progression within the run. I find it takes me a good 3-4 miles to warm up properly and find my stride, especially in this cold weather.

Sending the get well fairy over to SueC.
09/12/2010 at 14:48

Thank you MsE. You and me both for the slow starts, good job we prefer distance races!!

You need to send some an anger management fairy over too.... I have got quite cross over on that SSX thread (the one that's not broken!)

For me, that is!!

Will read back now.....

09/12/2010 at 14:56
COL - What time did you get at Anglesey? Is the GFA for 2011 or 12? Which mileage schedul edid you follow and what bits did you tweak? Cheers
09/12/2010 at 15:00

Sounds like an interesting day Knight Rider, who was then responsible for coming up with the shortlist?

I would interpret 'general aerobic' as 'easy paced' running.

Welcome, new people

09/12/2010 at 15:25

Keir,  My time was 3.10.31 chip time. in Sept 2009. Too late to enter for this years,so its for London 2011.

the only tweaks i do to the P&D is that i sometimes alter the days depending on family and work commitments.

I do up the pace the last 5-6 miles on the long runs, but as stated many times its time on the feet that's most important.

09/12/2010 at 15:28
SueC - trying to find the SSX forum you've had your rant on. I do enjoy a bit of voyeurism....what's the forum's official title - can you post a link
09/12/2010 at 15:30

Afternoon all.

Will have to go and read the SSX thread - not usually SueC who gets hot under the collar!  Hope the back improves soon, btw. 

Lovely 10M for me in the sunshine.  Ground still pretty solid but a lot of the frost is going and I suspect the ice on the harbour will be gone by tomorrow afternoon.  Treated myself to a run in my lightweights (Adizero Tempos - they have sparkly laces, too!) and averaged 7.11m/m, with the penultimate 2.5M @ 6.45s.  One step further along the road back to marathon-fit.

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