Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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09/12/2010 at 21:05

Great run Barry - I couldn't imagine doing something like that in the evening!

7.08 for me tonight with the club, although I was actually on my own at the front from 1 mile to 5.5 miles. First mile was around 8:30, but churned out the next 6 at just under 7 min miles for 50:49 total @ 7:11 average. I was working, but it felt good, but then at 5.5 one of our super-quick twins (1:10 half) cruised up and started to have a conversation with me - it was rather one-sided!

09/12/2010 at 21:33

Down t'club for me as well. Post parents evening. Nice to get back down the club. Havent run with them since the summer. The ice meant the pace slowed in places, but a respectable 9miles in 65mins. Also did 5m this morning, so not a bad days running.

Views on SSX - I agree with all of the above. Definately not voting for Charlie though. He sounds like a right tosser

Poacher wrote (see)

Stupid rush of blood to the head today, entered my very first 10k (mistake 1) the day after Boxing Day (mistake 2) on an apparently not very flat course (mistake 3) somewhere near Maidstone and haven't time for even token appropriate training (mistake 4). Then looked at the relevant thread to find Keir apparently also making his 10k debut - could be the slowest smackdown in history...  - what time are you looking for? I'm embarassed already.

Mistake 5 - Challenging me to a smack down  I normally like sub 40. Ambitious target would be 38 something, but Xmas pudding eating would be compromised to achieve that. I asked at the club about the course today. Fast on the way out and drags up in the final 2 miles, but not hilly as such. Fancy a pint afterwards?

09/12/2010 at 21:36

Forgot to say - Great final run Barry. All looking really good. You've built up really nicely for this one on the back of Abingdon. Is sub 3.15 still the target?

09/12/2010 at 22:16
Keir - how about a pint or three beforehand just to even things up?  TBH I will be nowhere near sub 40, mainly an excuse for a few hours away from the family Christmas.     Will see if Poachette fancies this, she is scarily fast. On the plus side I will be the only 10k novice who already has a 145m PB -  shameless, but it's important to get those excuses in very early 
09/12/2010 at 23:15

Thanks Poacher & Barry B for the support.

I'll be honest here - I'm absolutely pegging it, but also absolutely looking forward to it at the same time.
One of the reasons I joined this thread was joining in with MM's thread for the SS this year. I really enjoyed it and after the big day was over, I was looking for a regular forum with other runners with not only the same goal (if not apsiring higher) but also sense of humour. MM's thread was a great read everyday pretty much and had a good balance of witty banter (favourite hat) and also informative input from both MM, LIz and other forumites. I think it was a great credit to him that even though the SS race didn't go to plan, he stuck in there and showed his true colours, gritting his teeth and achieving his 3.12 marathon as we all knew he would. Just goes to show that he was a good pick from the contenders this time last year. 

Looking forward to hearing about the Poacher versus Keir 10k smackdown. Will you be dressed up accordingly in WWF spandex complete with masks to hide your true identity?

Getting ready for my marathon training regardless of the outcome of the SS - I still have that place in Brighton on the same day! 10 miles tonight split into 2 miles easy 8.10 mm pace, next 2 at PMP 7.22 mm  then another mile at 6.59 pace. Repeated this again, however my next 2 easy miles turned out to be more PMP pace and felt copmfortable so carried on and the last mile at around 6.45 pace.
73.41 for the whole 10 miles which works out at 7.22 pace, which would be a very nice marathon goal pace in Paris!

09/12/2010 at 23:22
Beware Of The Fish wrote (see)

Great run Barry - I couldn't imagine doing something like that in the evening!

7.08 for me tonight with the club, although I was actually on my own at the front from 1 mile to 5.5 miles. First mile was around 8:30, but churned out the next 6 at just under 7 min miles for 50:49 total @ 7:11 average. I was working, but it felt good, but then at 5.5 one of our super-quick twins (1:10 half) cruised up and started to have a conversation with me - it was rather one-sided!

BOTF - Was it one of those conversations where you just nodded your head and grunted?

Brilliant long run there Barry, is your marathon in late January? As you did this unfuelled during the run, did you carbo load a bit during the day or yesterday? I've heard of that doing a 20 miler easy unfuelled and then next time a quicker 20 miler with MP blocks but with gels - was that from MacMillan?

10/12/2010 at 07:41

Hi All and special hello to MM after many a 'chat' during training for the 2010 VLM!   I'm still in Germany and the second winter is worse than the first so far with huge dumps of snow so running is 'interesting' to say the least!   I'm currently 'clocking' 40 miles a week and on 20th Dec I'll be starting my 16 week training programme for the 2010 Brighton Marathon followed quickly by a 30K trail run the following weekend in Germany, the Paderborn Half Marathon the following weekend and then my first Berlin Marathon in September!   It's all go and a good way to 'celebrate' my 50th year next year!

Would love to run just inside 3:15 in Brighton so will watch this forum with interest.   I ran the VLM in 3:28 this year and the Hastings Marathon in 3:14 in 2008 although my marathon PB is 2:56.

Good luck everyone!

10/12/2010 at 08:06

I would like to say a big thanks to all those on this thread who have helped my massively with the understanding of paced sessions, HR (not that I've mastered that yet!) and marathon running in general. 

Rase Jame / AoE-   Brass Monkey entry -  I have a member from my club who missed the online entry (she's vet and was out in a field!) and she will take the entry if you decide not to do it.  Send me a message and we'll arrange payment etc.

Good luck with your training guys and girls and a special good luck to Knight Rider! 

 Oh and for those who are interested, Captain Haddock, hasn't got a place in London but he's training for Lochness in the Autumn.

10/12/2010 at 09:05

Hi to the other Mr Hodge!  Good to hear you're still clocking up the miles in Germany and are targeting another spring marathon. Do keep us up to date with how you're getting on.

This morning I got up early (rarity) and did:
3.14 miles w/up at 8m11s pace (25m40s)
3.16 miles at 7m17s pace (MP effort) (23m01s)
1.34 miles w/down at 7m45s pace (10m25s))

so 7.64 miles in 59m06s and that now brings up 44.67 miles so far this week with tonight's run home to come. Blimey, if I do 5.33 miles on the way home I'll have done 50 miles in 5 days  with Sunday's long run still to come..... During the spring, my biggest week was 62 miles and I may exceed that this week
Which brings me on to a question I wanted to pose to Moraghan : what percentage of weekly mileage should the long run be? If I do 13 miles this Sunday that will be just under 25%. Am I right in thinking that's about right?

10/12/2010 at 09:05

Barry - I can't find your post about a long run, but judging from everyone else's comments it was obviously a good one!

A.C. - what are your running plans for next year then?

Tony - nice to hear from you again. Sounds like you're set up nicely for the beginning of your Brighton campaign and ready to celebrate your milestone year.

7.5M general aerobic run for me this morning Aimed for MP+20% and ended up just a fraction quicker.

10/12/2010 at 09:05
Minni wrote (see)

 Oh and for those who are interested, Captain Haddock, hasn't got a place in London but he's training for Lochness in the Autumn.


With or without a ostrich costume?
TR
10/12/2010 at 09:18

Good work MM – I used to see you posting 2M runs to work and wonder “WTFP of that, why doesn’t he make em 6M each way (seeing as he's made the effort to don the pumps)” – lol. Now you are getting into it ! You could run a good marathon in April off the foundations you are laying now. Having said that I only ran 4M today , but I backed it up with a 45min turbo and I’m trying not to empty the matchbox the wrong side of Christmas (and I swim at lunch). I’m enjoying the novelty of only doing regular short runs (6M ish usually).

I’ve had plenty of weeks in the last 2 campaigns when the LSR was over or around 50% of the weak(ly) total. No wonder I've struggled.

10/12/2010 at 09:21
Nice MP run MM. And that's some quite impressive mileage you're clocking up already.
10/12/2010 at 09:33
Matchstick Man wrote (see)

Which brings me on to a question I wanted to pose to Moraghan : what percentage of weekly mileage should the long run be? If I do 13 miles this Sunday that will be just under 25%. Am I right in thinking that's about right?

I would say 25 - 40% when in marathon training (40% for the extra long runs).  The thing is for a runner who is committed and consistent like yourself that's only really important at the outset when putting together the structure.  If you do that more weeks than most you can afford the odd week where it's 50% if too much life gets in the way of the other runs and your priority is another 20+.

It's only time to worry if someone is trying to run a marathon on 40m a week and also trying to get in the requisite number of 20+ milers.  Having the long run at 50% or more regularly just goes to show the mileage is insufficient to really be doing a marathon.

The longer you've been running and the more focused / diligent you are the less you have to worry about the crude 'rules'.

Edited: 10/12/2010 at 09:35
10/12/2010 at 09:44
Gul Darr wrote (see)
A.C. - what are your running plans for next year then?

err - I ashamed to say none at present in terms of races but I feel I need a bit of breathing space from rigid training programmes.

I think I underestimated just how demanding it has been to get from 3.43 to sub 3.15 for the marathon in 12 months and it is time to regroup and chill a bit. No matches left in the matchbox as it were (thanks for that TR).

So that means in training I am focussing on slower trail running mixed with faster interval training and planning to concentrate on 10k-10m distance. I will probably target some races for March and April and try to push my time down there. I will possibly get back to half marathons in the summer.

My next big declared goal is sub 3.00 originally for Boston 2012 but possibly Berlin in the same year (I have a feeling I may run both, Boston a trial run for Berlin, that worked last year with New York providing the foundation for London).

One of my big picture running goals is to run all the marathon majors with a pb in each one (which I have done so far - but that is only two).

Lastly, next year is about supporting the OH who is starting a new career and the kids in the things they want to do, so I am more than happy to focus on family and others, taking a bit of a marathon time out. As we all know, running can be a selfish sport and marathon running in particular.

 xpost MM - I agree with the post above. I am still banging out 12-15 milers on a very low base at the moment and sometimes they are the bulk of my running in a given week. Because my body is used to running long (and has been for a while) I am not that bothered about what Moraghan calls the crude rules.

Edited: 10/12/2010 at 09:48
10/12/2010 at 09:56
TR wrote (see)

Good work MM – I used to see you posting 2M runs to work and wonder “WTFP of that, why doesn’t he make em 6M each way (seeing as he's made the effort to don the pumps)” – lol.


Because I was strictly adhering to the mileage / sessions of the RW sub 3h15 plan. Tbh, back then my wife was on maternity leave and it wouldn't have been a hassle to make every morning a 6 miler and then a session on the way home but that wouldn't have been fair on the other people who didn't have the time available to me who were also following the RW plan. I think Hilly said similar at the time - "why not get up earlier and bag some extra?" and even Race Jase has said he questioned the effectiveness of such short runs. However. Liz and I were constrained by the schedule so the 12 mile mid-week runs became 9 into work and 3 home - definitely a compromise.
That's the deal though - I was signed up to follow the RW sub 3h15 programme to the letter to prove it works. Everyone's life is different but the idea was to host a thread that allowed others to join in and compare sessions on the same day

10/12/2010 at 10:01
Moraghan wrote (see)

It's only time to worry if someone is trying to run a marathon on 40m a week and also trying to get in the requisite number of 20+ milers.  Having the long run at 50% or more regularly just goes to show the mileage is insufficient to really be doing a marathon.

Moraghan - Tempted to say that it didn't do me any harm (38 mpw ave, 99m = 5 longest runs, 3.09 at Abingdon), or did I just get lucky? Is the 50% rule due to injury prevention?

Nice running there MM. With that sort of weekly mileage and Marathon pace runs, have you considered the possibility of running a spring marathon?

Welcome back TH6!

5m recovery @ 8.52 pace for me this morning having realised that the 9 miles with the club yesterday averaged M Pace. After the past few weeks it felt positively warm out there this morning so didn't bother with hat and gloves. Was then surprised by the amount of ice of the roads.

10/12/2010 at 10:09
Keir wrote (see)

Nice running there MM. With that sort of weekly mileage and Marathon pace runs, have you considered the possibility of running a spring marathon?


Do you know what? I didn't. How surprising is that? I kind of expected a quicker pace than that if I'm honest but having banked 37 miles over the previous 4 days I am feeling v tired so not that bothered. I know that by next week I'll have adjusted to the training and by the week after I'll be handling the training load better. Also the canal path was covered with sheet ice in a lot of places so it wasn't conducive to fast running.
I ran strong on the hills on Weds night with the club so the next marker is Parkrun a week tomorrow. Just got to be patient about building up the miles and remember my main aim is on Feb 13th, not Dec 10th
10/12/2010 at 10:13
Keir wrote (see)

5m recovery @ 8.52 pace for me this morning having realised that the 9 miles with the club yesterday averaged M Pace. After the past few weeks it felt positively warm out there this morning so didn't bother with hat and gloves. Was then surprised by the amount of ice of the roads.


Same for me - I felt hot for all of my run this morning (6 miles in about 45 minutes) but the ice on the fields and tracks was deadly slippery stuff, with a melted sheen of water.

Was thinking about the doubles you are running at the moment Keir - how are they going? what kind of benefits are you expecting? and what is the motivation for running them? From memory P+D (may their names be praised) say at our level we shouldn't really be doing them at all..

10/12/2010 at 10:34
A.C wrote (see)
Was thinking about the doubles you are running at the moment Keir - how are they going? what kind of benefits are you expecting? and what is the motivation for running them? From memory P+D (may their names be praised) say at our level we shouldn't really be doing them at all..

I know we shouldn't be doing them. But my understanding is that 1 x 10m is better than 2 x 5m. However 10 milers every day are not going to happen for me (I am not setting my alarm to Lorenzo 0'clock) So my view is 2 x 5m is better than 1 x 5m.

Basically I am trying to keep the routine of 5 - 6 days per wk running. 4 x week day mornings I get up early and run 5 miles. Basic miles (either recovery or Steady pace run) done for the day. Then any extra - (Core session, club run, recovery run with slower teachers from school, evening run) is basically extra stuff. That way if the worst comes to the worst and weather is terrible or work load is high that day, I can at least think that I have got some exercise in.

I think I have noticed benefits from extra weekly mileage (ave 40 - 50 per wk as opposed to 25 - 30 this time last yr) and fewer days with no running. I haven't raced for a while, but the fact that I went out with the 6 fast boys in the club last night and only 3 of us were together at the end has filled me with confidence that I am going well.

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