Sub 3h15

For anyone trying to crack the 3h15 barrier anywhere in the world

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05/06/2012 at 22:30
Come on moof enough's enough. Time to zip it up and get out there!

You've started Jools - well done.
06/06/2012 at 08:14

Sort of OK last night: headlines read 5k in 18:41 which is just outside 6 m/m pace but the wind and rain brought a tree down so the course had to be changed and there is no knowing how long the course really was: Garmin says long and actually 5:56 pace. The course is basically two laps: run away from the start and downhill, then pay for it with an uphill section, then repeat but this time more down and so more up at the end. Splits were 3:20, 3:40, 3:55 (first uphill), 3:45 and 4:00 (second time).

Rain was a big issue, it was chucking it down before and so the roads were flooded and long, deep puddles made it more like a steeple chase, with tight turns etc not helping either.

Still not quite right but 6 minute pace on a tough, undulating, wet course looks better than 6:10 last week on a flat and dry one, hope I can turn it round fully for a track 5000 on Saturday.

Edited: 06/06/2012 at 08:14
06/06/2012 at 12:27

Magnificent performances from Bike it and Poacher - Stirling stuff and miles out of my league - literally.

Like most I am not planning an autumn mara but going to (hopefully) concentrate on 5k, 10k and hals. What is the thread wisdom re recovery times between hard run halfs and 10k etc?

06/06/2012 at 12:32

I was supposed to be doing the same race as PMJ last night, but my knee was quite painfull a couple of times when I went up & down stairs so I was 50/50 on whether to do it or not. Then I looked at the weather and the scale tipped firmly on the side of not doing it. I went along to cheer and eat the food instead.

The Western States 100 is an interesting race, and one of those that for Americans is a bit of a holy grail. I did a trail race in Auburn CA a couple of years ago that I think included the very end of the course, and that was quite tough enough thank you. On the official route you climb 2500 feet in the first 4.5 miles and then a further 15500 feet in the remaining 95.5 miles plus 23000 feet of descent! I believe this is one of the races where they weigh you at the checkpoints and if you've lost too much weight they won't let you go on.

06/06/2012 at 21:21

I was plagued by multiple strange pains in my right leg on my run tonight. Everywhere from deep in the glute to the outside of my foot and everything inbetween. There was always pain either in the glute or at the top of the hamstring, then extra pains moved around between the top of the calf, inside, outside and back of the knee, hip flexors, outside of lower leg etc etc. By the end it felt like I was dragging my leg rather than lifting it. No idea what that was about but I hope it goes away.

06/06/2012 at 23:19

Nice run there PMJ- good to see you were not put off by a bit of rain!

Probably just a one off Speedy- lets hope so.

I'm resting today & tomorrow then short burst on Friday ahead of Saturdays big race at Blaydon. 150th anniversary of the classic.

06/06/2012 at 23:57

PMJ - still a good time taking the course & conditions into play. The track 5k will hopefully be some what easier.

Mennania - If you are PB chasing I'd say 2 weeks in between 10k & half.

Odd pains there Speedy - like OO says, probably a one off thing?

An encouraging 7 miler tonight in 46.02 (av pace of 6.34). Luckily with last nights reps & tonight's run I've managed to burn off the weight I'd put on over the last 4 days of notwatchingwhatI'meatingordrinking.

07/06/2012 at 06:51
Belated hats off to Poacher for a truly awesome run over the weekend.

I can imagine that you're disappointed with the DNF, but remembering what you told me about one runner who'd literally gone temporarily blind after his body shut down towards the end of the race, it sounds like you did absolutely the right thing.

Have you signed up for next year yet?!

Impressive running Stateside from MsE. Have you got your spare rooms sorted for when all the forumites come over to escape the rubbish weather we're having over here at the moment?

Hope whatever's up with your leg is nothing serious Speedy.

Good outing from PMJ - sounds like the few days rest had a beneficial effect.

After Sunday's exploits on the bike, I've managed to get out for a few runs - nothing of particular note and I'm really struggling to get any speed going. 3 x mile reps the other day and I was struggling to hit 6:45 pace!

Not sure whether it was still residual tiredness or just that I need to give the speed sessions a bit more focus. I did manage a bit of speed around the squash court yesterday lunchtime though.

Other than OO, is anyone else racing this weekend?
07/06/2012 at 07:52
Speedy - hope that leg rights itself.

I'm doing Blaydon on Saturday too. I'm not expecting anything spectacular from my running but it's favourite event of the year.
07/06/2012 at 08:09
Lorenzo wrote (see)
Other than OO, is anyone else racing this weekend?

Just the track 5000m (and that is five thousand metres and not 5k as per marathon talk rules).

Lots of talk about speed and I think it is fair to reflect what we mean by speed as I certainly struggle to get my head round it. If I pick up my PBs from marathon down I get this pace:

06:30.1 marathon
06:04.2 half
05:56.6 10 miles
05:56.6 10k
05:44.2 5000m
05:31.7 3000m

Now apart from the fact that my 10k PB needs some serious attention, you can see that there is not really a great deal of difference in speed. My 3000m time (10 minutes of serious exertion) is just a minute a mile faster than my marathon time. There is not really a great difference between my 5000 pace and my 10 mile pace: just 12 seconds a mile or 3 seconds a lap

It feels very odd that I can race at 88 seconds a lap pace for 10 miles but struggle to do 78 seconds a lap as 10x400m reps, but when you look at it, that is way faster than I race.

So thought of the day: speed work should be fast but don't expect it to be massively faster than your normal races as it is very hard to go much faster.


07/06/2012 at 08:49
Nice stats PMJ, I think that shows that you are well trained when there isn't much difference between them

Mine for comparison

Mara - 7:21.5 - soft
HM - 6:19.9 - best graded run
10k - 6:13.7 - might take this down this year
5k - 6:11.0 - really need to work on top end

Hope your leg is feeling better Speedy, is it ok just to walk around on? Treat it carefully for a couple of days
07/06/2012 at 09:49

Mine at present:
Mara - 6.59
HM - 6.37
10M - 6.37
10k - 6.22
5M - 6.21
5K - 6.15

Hopefully the last 5 will drop a bit during/after the summer of speed, although at the Great South Run I will be at the mercy of the weather - a headwind in the last 2M and I'll be sunk!  And at least the 5k is now faster than the 5M and 10k!

Edited: 07/06/2012 at 09:55
07/06/2012 at 10:01

Interesting to see all your  stats. How does the conversion from HM to Mara look when using something like Mcmillan calculator.

To date I have been using Mcmillan as a guide to Mara pace as I only have HM in the bag (6:40).

Meant to be running a Marathon this Sunday. Still laid up with sore calf having had sports massage, ice, heat, roller, ibuprofen, compression ......... etc for over a week   .........   Starting to despair.


07/06/2012 at 10:57

Mara - 7:09
20 m - 7:09
Half - 6:27
10 m - 6:18
10k - 6:17
5 m - 6:07
5k - 6:03

I still think my 10k is weak, and I still regard my 10 mile as my best even though it's no longer my best age grading. I'd have loved to have a crack at the same race this year as I was fitter than I was 2 years ago when I set it, but it was too close to the marathon and Reading Half this year. My 20 mile time is also 2 years old - didn't get chance to do one this year through illness, but I reckon I would have beaten it.

07/06/2012 at 11:45

Speedy - I felt like you do 2 weeks after my half which was 3 weeks after london. I reduced my running to 3-4 times a week by 6-7 miles at a comfortable pace  ie if i started to experience sustained pain I would back off and stop and stretch/massage if necessary. The 2 week lay off is over and it is completely cleared up and I am back into the shorter faster stuff with zero niggles or aches for the first time in months! I certainly benefited from the lay off and am back enjoying running rather than fretting and worrying myself.  You seem to have been unsettled for a few weeks now and I wonder if a short term back off may be the quickest solution to your niggles?

Also Ran - sope it all comes together but you will know yourself if its on or not.

My stats re pace make no sense as my half is faster than my 10m and 10k.

edited for typo

Edited: 07/06/2012 at 11:45
07/06/2012 at 11:46

Mine are a bit erratic:

Mara - 7:23
HM - 6:43
10M - 6:49
10k - 6:25
5M - 6.37 (XC)
5K - 6.16

Clearly a bit odd that my HM pace is quicker than 10 miles, but the HM was run on a pancake flat course whereas the 10 milers have had a few ups and downs.

Also highlights how much I need to sort out the last few miles of the marathon as this is what's letting me down. More progressive runs between now and VLM 2013 methinks.


07/06/2012 at 18:41

Speedy Hope it is nothing serious

AR Try and look upon it as a slightly more extreme taper

Very interesting stats. My issue is when mara training,any tempo run below HM pace is try and keep below 4km per hour. Whilst my HM PB is 4:04km. I need to race more.

9.5 miles tonight, very hot, but once warmed up and the inital climb out of the way all very nice and comfortable. Rest day tomorrow.


07/06/2012 at 19:55

Thanks for the wishes folks. I suspect a trapped nerve somewhere as I've had similar things before and it just *feels* like nerve pain. Not that it's painful when not running, but I am aware of it. 

With that in mind, and the fact that it's been piddling it down all day with no signs of stopping, and the fact that I needed to go to the supermarket and didn't fancy doing that soaked to the skin post training, I ditched tonight's session. Also won't be running Saturday or Sunday as I'm otherwise engaged. And I forgot to book Body Pump for tomorrow night (I usually do a few miles on the treadie before class) so unless it subsides to a level where I'm no longer vaguely conscious of it I may be having 4 days off. 

07/06/2012 at 21:19
Scooby Dudek wrote (see)

Very interesting stats. My issue is when mara training,any tempo run below HM pace is try and keep below 4km per hour. Whilst my HM PB is 4:04km. I need to race more.


4km per hour?! Would hope that you can go a bit faster than that!! 

07/06/2012 at 22:00

mara 6:52

half 6:10

10 mile 5:57

10k 5:52

After a day of driving I couldn't resist a 7 mile blast in awful conditions- but I'm feeling good

That's tough also-ran, I hope it comes together for you.


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