sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

all welcome

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02/10/2012 at 12:18

02/10/2012 at 12:42

Scott have you had those bagels before?  Just don't try anything new in the last couple of days before the race, and especially on race morning.  If you haven't had bagels before a long run before, don't have them on race day.  Have whatever you normally eat before a long run.  This is Really Important!  The race is not the time to discover that your breakfast is going to make an early reappearance (from either end...).

And carbo loading is SO last year darling!


02/10/2012 at 12:46

to qualify that comment about carbo loading, the thinking is nowadays that because you're drastically cutting the amount of exercise you're doing, you're carboloading by default because you're not necessarily using what you eat. 

These days I eat well but don't even eat a lot of pasta/potatoes/rice etc. It's seen me through a good few ironmans   The last thing you want is to put on extra weight.

02/10/2012 at 12:53

i have had the bagels before, will be having usual breakfast of porridge at about 6am, and a bannana at about 7. maybe a coffee with my bannana...

02/10/2012 at 12:53

was gonna have a bagelfriday and saturday.... wont go mad with them though.

02/10/2012 at 14:42

taking the fun out of running AH. No carb loading?  Jeez. My local restaurants would be out of business too 

Nice bowl of pasta for me, some bread, tons of water. Also lots of water in the 1-2 days before Scott, possibly with electrolytes (zeros). I felt supercharged for Edinburgh.

Massage actually not too bad,, I thought was going to be mega painful around ITB , sore but not like an OWWWWWW.. more an Ahhhhh type noise if you follow.. My  right quads were tight and had then tighted everything around knee cap. no movement at all. Which explains why I was able to stretch and walk,, I did a quad stretch when stopping 2nd time. Light runs all this week and rest then maybe Ripon.

02/10/2012 at 15:44

Well let me bore you, after GNR at 1.42.55 I know I must be able to do a marathon sub four........though I do prefer the shorter distance. 6foot 2 inches and 75 kilos so lean and tend to run out of steam around the 20 mile mark as I did at Edinburgh this year, though I so paced that race well. 1..57 for the first half then 20 mile mark was 3.03 then took me an hour and five to do the last 6.2 mainly due to heat and my son in law fell apart at 17 miles so we had been running together well till he got crap. The legs are my weakness, heart fit enough so probably need to do some weights on the legs. Never bothered with massage, too expensive. Not got a roller yet, just trainers and how do I improve. Running about 20 to 30 miles regularly and cycle to work too. 
All the best to all in the ironman and Abingdon etc.

02/10/2012 at 16:23

mcs - did your son in law get cramp or was that not a typo LOL  In 2010 I did a 3:36 marathon at the Newcastle Town Moor off the back of a 1:42 half at GNR a few weeks before so sub 4 is definitely doable.

Edited: 02/10/2012 at 16:49
02/10/2012 at 17:16

3:36 marathon off 1:42 is a bit unusual though Jovi?  I usually multiply the half time x 2.2 to 2.26 (Runners world thread).

mcs, not boring us at all, what were your long runs like, say how many 18 miles and over?

I did 5 x 20 milers or more for Edinburgh, including 18s, probably another 2. 20-30 miles a week is on the low side, I varied between 32-42 miles a week, 3 days running, 2 rest days for sub 3:30 same day as you and thats considered low on other threads.

slight change and I'm sure you could do it.



02/10/2012 at 17:54

Am going to drown at the track tonight - esp as we will be on the grass rather than the track. It's going to be a bit boggy. I can't complain if I don't like the session - I set it...

02/10/2012 at 20:48

Very exciting Scott and Dave - cant wait to hear..

AH - are you SERIOUS about carbo loading - not eating anything extra? thats strange.. what if you normally have a light tuna salad ? thats not going to help run 26.2 miles is it????

mcs - they do say two parts to the race - 20 and then the 6 - so maybe going too fast to 20?? run out of gas too early .... its the pacing thats tricky ..

02/10/2012 at 20:55
Slack, I was hoping for something motivational! Must try harder!
02/10/2012 at 21:39
Well it's true I suppose that a light tuna salad might not be enough. But you don't have to ram lots of pasta down. You could bulk it up with some chickpeas or some lentils or slice of bread. Our muscle and liver glycogen stores are quite small (which is why we put so much effort into preserving them during the race) and because they're small it doesnt take much to fill them up.
02/10/2012 at 21:43
Didn't get through the drills even tonight without my knee playing up. Bugger. Pissed off of Hampshire
02/10/2012 at 22:52

Ventured out tonight in the pouring rain for a gentle trot... very pleasant, strangely.

Jury is still out on the whole carb loading thing. I think the problem is that as more and more people get into running and then some of them progressing to half and full marathon the facts get a bit distorted and some people find it necessary to stuff themselves with crappy pasta etc just for the sake of it. Surely if you concentrate 2-3 days before on sensible eating and add in a few low GI foods then that would be enough. More importantly, as FRC says, is water. Get hydrated and keep hydrated up until the off. It's certainly no time to experiment with new things although a wholewheat bagel is unlikely to hurt anyone. I will drink loads over the next few days and so far this week been eating a more protein rich diet than carbs. Extra carbs will come in Thursday in the form of brown rice, sweet potato, wholewheat bagels, buckwheat pancakes. 

There... that almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about... 

I won't however cut out the odd glass of wine 

Oh... and by the way FRC - I don't think Jovi is actually human, so she can do things like that...

03/10/2012 at 08:50

I think you put it perfectly Dave.  Sensible healthy eating - don't need to go bonkers. 

There's so much stuff out there.  How about this one:  on a long run (any run) your body will use for energy whatever system/food  it used for the last meal.  So if your last meal was very carby, your body's set up to deal with carbs, so it finds it easier to metabolise carbs. If it was a fat-rich last meal, your body is set up to deal with fat so will use fat.  Obviously in a long race you want your body to fat as an energy source primarily so that your carb stores are preserved for as long as poss.  LSRs during training set you up for this but obviously you'd want to do anything with food that helped.

Am not saying this approach is correct - can see a couple of flaws ,although I'm not an expert - but just goes to show how much research is going on out there.

What about the 40-30-30 approach to nutrition?  i think that makes sense (for every day eating, not necessarily for racing, although I did use it for my last IM.

Edited: 03/10/2012 at 08:57
03/10/2012 at 09:08

All this talk about eating I being really naughty then when I say I don't eat anything before a long run?!! Wake up, coffee, run 20 miles with lucozade sport, jellybabies and a couple of SiS gels. Well, that got me through 2011 VLM anyway. Night before is usually fill my face with pizza. Could this be where I'm going wrong? hehe

03/10/2012 at 10:41

Holymoly - actually nothing wrong with that obviously but it won't work with everyone. As AH says you can read into research until your eyes bleed...

Some of my best training runs over the years have been after a bottle of red wine and a hot curry... I won't trying this approach this weekend though 

03/10/2012 at 10:42

Holymoly, I was advised by two top sports scientists Greg Whyte and another one, to always have breakfast before an early morning training session, especially LSRs. Has worked for me ever since, 2-3 potato cakes, something simple to wake the body up.  You've certainly got more than enough carbs with the drinks, jbs, and gels during the run, but breakfast might top you up so you need less? I usually have half a sports drink, water and a couple of the kids raisin / sultana lunch packs during a 20 miler LSR.

Not heard the what you last ate is what you burn. But I have run super fast in evening at club speed session after a full english mega breakie at lunchtime. . take out the worst bits and swap in scrambled egg & extra beans though.

AH, any good quad stretches bar the traditional one, leg pulled behind you, push through hips, one arm out against wall or for balance. Vary the angle of foot to get more of quad muscles?

Edited: 03/10/2012 at 10:43
03/10/2012 at 10:52

Two sort of thread birthdays today!  Martin's one and my lovely *adult* son J.     And his present hasn't arrived .

FRC - will get back re quad stretch, but the answer is - no not really although there are ways you can tweak it. You could also introduce a bit of pushing and relaxing which I haven't got time to explain right now but will do later perhaps. Now off for a swim AS I CANT RUN

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