sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

all welcome

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02/10/2012 at 21:43
Didn't get through the drills even tonight without my knee playing up. Bugger. Pissed off of Hampshire
02/10/2012 at 22:52

Ventured out tonight in the pouring rain for a gentle trot... very pleasant, strangely.

Jury is still out on the whole carb loading thing. I think the problem is that as more and more people get into running and then some of them progressing to half and full marathon the facts get a bit distorted and some people find it necessary to stuff themselves with crappy pasta etc just for the sake of it. Surely if you concentrate 2-3 days before on sensible eating and add in a few low GI foods then that would be enough. More importantly, as FRC says, is water. Get hydrated and keep hydrated up until the off. It's certainly no time to experiment with new things although a wholewheat bagel is unlikely to hurt anyone. I will drink loads over the next few days and so far this week been eating a more protein rich diet than carbs. Extra carbs will come in Thursday in the form of brown rice, sweet potato, wholewheat bagels, buckwheat pancakes. 

There... that almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about... 

I won't however cut out the odd glass of wine 

Oh... and by the way FRC - I don't think Jovi is actually human, so she can do things like that...

03/10/2012 at 08:50

I think you put it perfectly Dave.  Sensible healthy eating - don't need to go bonkers. 

There's so much stuff out there.  How about this one:  on a long run (any run) your body will use for energy whatever system/food  it used for the last meal.  So if your last meal was very carby, your body's set up to deal with carbs, so it finds it easier to metabolise carbs. If it was a fat-rich last meal, your body is set up to deal with fat so will use fat.  Obviously in a long race you want your body to fat as an energy source primarily so that your carb stores are preserved for as long as poss.  LSRs during training set you up for this but obviously you'd want to do anything with food that helped.

Am not saying this approach is correct - can see a couple of flaws ,although I'm not an expert - but just goes to show how much research is going on out there.

What about the 40-30-30 approach to nutrition?  i think that makes sense (for every day eating, not necessarily for racing, although I did use it for my last IM.

Edited: 03/10/2012 at 08:57
03/10/2012 at 09:08

All this talk about eating I being really naughty then when I say I don't eat anything before a long run?!! Wake up, coffee, run 20 miles with lucozade sport, jellybabies and a couple of SiS gels. Well, that got me through 2011 VLM anyway. Night before is usually fill my face with pizza. Could this be where I'm going wrong? hehe

03/10/2012 at 10:41

Holymoly - actually nothing wrong with that obviously but it won't work with everyone. As AH says you can read into research until your eyes bleed...

Some of my best training runs over the years have been after a bottle of red wine and a hot curry... I won't trying this approach this weekend though 

03/10/2012 at 10:42

Holymoly, I was advised by two top sports scientists Greg Whyte and another one, to always have breakfast before an early morning training session, especially LSRs. Has worked for me ever since, 2-3 potato cakes, something simple to wake the body up.  You've certainly got more than enough carbs with the drinks, jbs, and gels during the run, but breakfast might top you up so you need less? I usually have half a sports drink, water and a couple of the kids raisin / sultana lunch packs during a 20 miler LSR.

Not heard the what you last ate is what you burn. But I have run super fast in evening at club speed session after a full english mega breakie at lunchtime. . take out the worst bits and swap in scrambled egg & extra beans though.

AH, any good quad stretches bar the traditional one, leg pulled behind you, push through hips, one arm out against wall or for balance. Vary the angle of foot to get more of quad muscles?

Edited: 03/10/2012 at 10:43
03/10/2012 at 10:52

Two sort of thread birthdays today!  Martin's one and my lovely *adult* son J.     And his present hasn't arrived .

FRC - will get back re quad stretch, but the answer is - no not really although there are ways you can tweak it. You could also introduce a bit of pushing and relaxing which I haven't got time to explain right now but will do later perhaps. Now off for a swim AS I CANT RUN

03/10/2012 at 11:53

Thanks for interesting comments FRC and others. I reckon my mileage for Edinburgh was abit low on the LSRs only did three over 20s and couple of very hilly 18s. I probably lack stamina as a desk jockey and sat infront of  a computer all day. Guess its a fine art getting the pacing right over a marathon, my mile splits were pretty good over the first half on reflection probably a minute or two too quick at 1.57.....and then the second half at 2.11 should really have been the other way round and might have been abit nearer. I only used gels and a shotblok at 20miles in the marathon and on reflection could have eaten more for breakie. Sub four still eludes me and having time to do the LSRs is tough. Have to get up earlier I reckon.

03/10/2012 at 13:03

Happy Birthday Martin !

mcs, 3 x 20s should be fine for sub4. Also depends what you do on your medium runs too for me, you might just be short a few miles a week. I saw a lot of people at London go over their half way target by 1-2 minutes then go positive by 7-10 minutes so penny dropped for me.

That extra minute or two makes a huge difference. I always think of Mel Gibson in Braveheart shouting "Hold.... Hold" now for some reason. I didn't really let go at all,  maybe mile 23 at Edi to keep things on track, half in 1:44 full in 3:28 so very even pace, no fade. I could've done 1:33-35 for first half so shows how much you hold back.

AH, just thinking, walking or static lunges on spot do the quads? uber gym gets us doing "mountain runner" which is similar but more advanced stretch, in press up position, hands in front then alternate each leg going forward level with hands, push through hips. Would they hit the quads well?

Hope the present arrives for J.

03/10/2012 at 13:23

Need to go slower and longer in training I reckon and maybe work on strength. Thanks for interesting comments. Must check out that Braveheart clip!!

Dave the you say very often the best runs come at strangest times. My GNR time was on a tin of tomato soup and a bag of chips the night before. I have the Coeliac condition so eating out is difficult unless you want meat and veg, gluten free pasta is not on the menu in the UK Italian restaurant......

03/10/2012 at 13:30

Since when did this become a proper running thread again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome all new people

Thanks Martin. Now what present should I give myself? O I know go to mablethorpe sunday and run a marathon. Not kept it quiet but not shouted either. hope to sub 4 but we will see. Legs at least seem Ok. All this talk of long runs. each to there own but I have run 20 or more every month this year and if honest does not seem to have helped as I would have liked


03/10/2012 at 15:51

Nice present Martin!!!???

Lots of clever running talk going on here! Very serious stuff. I have nothing to add on that front. Actually ran last night with club for the first time in months...forgot it was 400 and 800 metre reps. I was actually making huffing noises which is very unlike me as I usually make no noise. All very interesting I hear you all say.

03/10/2012 at 19:00

All Very Interesting.

It's nearly My birthday too.

Doing loads of exercise but eating way too much.

03/10/2012 at 19:48
Umb - AH type noises or quieter than that?
03/10/2012 at 20:44
Time for a bagel me thinks!
03/10/2012 at 20:46
3.5 miles tonight, 8 min 30 pace. Felt really good!
03/10/2012 at 21:50

Good luck on Sunday Dave and good luck to Martin (happy birthday too ) Looking forward to hearing how you both get on.

Had my 20 week scan today, baby well and wriggling about, very cute

03/10/2012 at 22:54

I did a fun exercise with PT yesterday involving sitting on bottom, stablilizing a kind of shallow v shape, ie leaning back a bit and having your legs sticking up a bit off the floor, so engaging stomach muscles, then PT throws big swiss ball to you and you have to kick it back to her with your toes. 2 x 10 reps. Great fun.

03/10/2012 at 23:24

Ikle, gym calls thats an alekna. You can do them with a weight in your hands too, moving out to above head, and/or one on your feet. Not sure about fun, hard on core.. Nasty! Well done. Sub 4 next year.

Tutu, lovely news.

Scott, were you eating the bagel as you ran? Relax now.

Martin, marathon in your birthday week. nuts!

Legs fine, some single leg squats at speed/ strength class (mcs yes! it does help) and all good, right quad fine. good stretching too. I take my hat off to AH, they had us lying on a weight bench doing breast stroke action with 2.5kg weights. Think I'd be drinking most of the water.

04/10/2012 at 07:24
Hi FRC wasn't eating the bagel while running! Remember, I am in Boston, so while running in the dark I have to concentrate on dodging dog sh*t and hobos.
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