sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

susan - Don't really know any more than Scott and Ikle have already said.  There are websites that give guidance (prob the Vibram one, Newton does) on how to get ready for them - foot and calf strengthening exercises etc.  Will be interesting to see how you go.  Exciting. Ever since reading Born to Run...

Am feeling better, thanks, but the whole running two days in a row thing - just can't do it I don't think. While labouring away just now only just managing ELEVEN MINUTE MILES, I was thinking I might abandon the principle of training around a 7 day week and create an 8-day plan.Then I could do 4 runs a week with a rest day between.  I know I'm only 50 but I feel about 150 at the mo.

Four and a bit mile plod to work wore the heart strap which I dont do very often my heart rate was around 140bpm. Need to go and check what my max is but that hurts so dont fancy that. 170 bpm going off the age thing. Was able to get it up to 185 a couple of years ago but dont think I could now. Whats the best way to test this?
Heres a question for discussion, debate. Is it right to take Ibupofren before a race? Have a right heated discussion with a friend on this subject.

Tom Sullivan - ignore my times! My 10k PB was 48 minutes 18 months ago when training for my first marathon so shows the difference good consistent running & hard work can make. I'm still on here as my original home from home, the people are lovely and will inspire you with stories, events, information. Unless I missed it, did you tell us some current times.

mcs the hr 220 minus age isn't accurate... I can still go into the 190s for example.

interval session at your highest pace, hill or short fast sprints should get you pretty high... 10-15 minute warm up then 10 minutes of intervals with recoveries. and yes, high hr does hurt!

My hilly traill long run is usually a steady 60-90 seconds pace above marathon race pace, so think what your heart rate would be at... so good to have that info. I have started using my hrm again with the new Garmin I got for xmas, much more comfortable strap.. nice they have added TE/ perceived effort to workouts now, so you can work out if you need to back off, take a rest/ recovery run in the days following.

AH has done blogs on the painkiller subject, plus there have been lots of news articles on BBC about athletes worryingly taking them before every event. I wouldn't take one before a race, seems silly, but have taken neurofen during when something tightened as others on here have too. Lots of people popping pills during the ultra.

Scott - great run there. Things moving on nicely since October.

Martin - aiming for sub 4 during your ultra? where is it again?

Susan - Vibrams - see how you get on. just go steady.

AH - doing an 8 day plan sounds interesting, think I saw a 10 day one somewhere or advice. you may remember I was going to email you this time last year since I couldn't work out how to squeeze everything in like I had for my first marathon... I still have the draft somewhere but seems silly now - simplest choice was not too... cut things out, 3 gym sessions too much, 4-5 runs too much. So sort of - Susans Less is More.

I still only do 3 days a week running, occasionally 4, but always 2 rest days. Run  Tue/ Thu/ Sunday so you're always recovered, Wed/Sat for circuit & strength training. Having done your IM, did you do much with heart rate then? Nothing wrong with 11 minute miles but how much does the cold water swimming tire you?

My 10k time is 46 mins and not improving much though I have never done a 10K race. Need to work on that my half mara pb is 1.42.55 so not speedy at all and mara sadly 4.08.31 so work to do to justify getting a place here!!

Book one mcs. Though I didn't realise it when I did my first marathon, knowing your 10k time is say 46 minutes, doing 4 of them in 57 minutes during the marathon doesn't sound too bad when you think that way. Proves its just a matter of building the endurance - you're plenty fast enough to do sub 4.

Much less recovery needed for a race effort 10k than a half too. Someone on another thread did one the week before a marathon even, but 2 weeks before is do-able whilst you taper.

mcs - agree with FRC re 220 minus your age thing - only accurate for 20% of people. Yuk finding max HR but worth doing once a year if you use HR.  Either warm up then 3 x 90sec/120sec hill repeats as hard as you dare or a hard 5k run.  With both your HR should be around max in the last 30 secs of 3rd hill rep or last 500m of the 5k. 

FRC - yes I did all my training bike rides to HR and then used HR to keep a lid on things during the bike on race day.  Left the run up to running to feel. HR was shot and prob not v accurate by then I think.  Cardiac drift with knobs on! 

Don't know if the cold water swimming is tiring.  It is when I'm tense because of vile waves etc and I suppose the physiological stress of being in extreme conditions will takes its toll. But most of the time I'm only in for between 15 and 30 mins so not exactly a huge session.  Am only doing that once a week at the mo though. 

Am wondering HOW I EVER managed to fit in enough training for three IMs! SO glad I'm not doing them any more, although trying to get swim fit at the same time as marathon training is not a walk in the park.

mcs - with a 1.42 half time you're def fast enough for sub 4.  It's all about the training, then - even more important - pacing on race day.  My half PB is 1.47 and my mara PB is 4:00.15.  Actually when I did my 4:00.15 my half PB was more like 1.49 I think.

You can do it!

Same here mcs, but slower, 46' 24" for 10k last April, 1hr 45' 22" for a half-marathon last August, and 4hrs 13' 42" for the VLM in 2012. Have run faster, but that was nearly 30 years ago ! Looking forward to keeping in touch with everyone. Thanks for the friendly welcome.

Link to ibuprofen info

It's not just my opinion - it's more a collation of thinking from various bits of research.  There are occasions I'd pop a nurofen before/during a long race/run... but only if an injury needed it and it wasn't a hot day when my kidneys would already be stressed.

Or a swim in the park...

Evening all

Hello all new people as others have said listen to the advise but ignore some of the times

FRC- Its the Gloucester 50k My original target was 5 hours but after Sunday 8.40 pace for a 20 miler decided on a new plan. If I can get a sub 4 to the marathon distance I can honestly say I dont care if I walk every step after that (will be good Comrades practice!!!) If the weather is against me back to plan A.

my half and 10 km pbs are slower than both MCS and Toms and I have managed to sneak under 4 hours.. only just and only once but I have done it!!

Scott - what is there to run in that is between running shoes and vibrams???

Ickle - do you use your vibrams just once in a while? whats the furthest you have run in them?

Did feel amazingly different - did not do track in them tonight ... yes Slack went to track..

Vibrams!! 

I used to run 15K in them, but that was a while ago. I am running my marathon training exclusively in trainers, just to give the ultimate chance of not confusing my knees. There are lots and lots of shoes inbetween barefoot and regular trainer. Especially nowadays. I usually see one or two pairs of barefoots in any marathon.

Not sure about this running 5 times a week mallarky. Run today (no desire or pleasure in it whatsoever) and I have to run Again tomorrow! A hilly 5.

And what do people think about Yassos? It's nearly time for me to start doing some...

Yasso 800s, I should say.

Yasso 800 - way to go!

Did some interval work on the way home last night and got my heart rate to 179 but it was pitch black with a dying head torch battery so might be able to squeeze abit more out of my skinny legs in daylight. But gives me a start for measuring where I am. Yasso 800 no fun.

hi all you lovelies and the newbies! I cannot keep up..

susan ooh interesting re the vibram thing I will wtch your progress with interest!

I had a moments madness last week and entered Snowdonia Marathon! Oh goodness me....

hen loved all your sea swimming photos, you are something else!

I am off to Peru Friday so I wont be around for a couple of weeks.  Have to squeeze in a 10 miler tonight because I sure wont do that out  there!