sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

hello al

Glad your fixed Susan.

Lou- Nice session although I hate it convinced the treddie helps as controls your pace. Ive created my own hill session which is tough but each couple of weeks as it feels easier either increase the pace or the % a good benchmark ,

Its all been said but after last week I think its a simple as listen to your body the old rule is a day recovery for each mile you race so 13 days for a half marathon. That would have been true when I first started but not for anyone on this thread,

Si seulement je pouvais parler français, il serait vraiment aider si jamais je me retrouve là-bas (ou en Belgique peut-être, certaines personnes le parlent là aussi!)

what do you think a realistic 10k time is, as a predictor of a sub4 marathon?

I've heard a few people say that the mcmillan calculator is a little optmiistic, suggesting that a 10k time of ~51mins is roughly indicative of a sub4 mararthon (it also suggests a 1:51 half is predictive of a sub4 mara). I'd tend to agree that this is a little optmistic for most people. Perhaps the mcmillan calculator is more accurate for faster runners but i'd guess that someone who can't break 50mins for 10k or 1:50 for a half will find it a struggle to come in under 4hours for a marathon.

What are your thoughts? For those of you chasing your first sub4 marathon, what cues are you looking at from your training to indicate you're in the right shape to start off at 9:09 pace on race day?

oh la la, je comprends en peu aussi!

AG, the trouble with any predictions is it comes down to the day! I have twisted my ankle at mile 14 on a bottle with lid still on, been knocked flying at mile 17 by a guy who stepped out of race to pee and just stepped straight back in! Needless to say sub 4 was not achieved in either of those attempts. However, I have never gone sub 50 10k or sub 1.50 half so you may well have a point, I think having those sort of times under your belt must give you a better shot. This year I will be happy with sub 4.15, but dont really care tbh!

WIsh I didn't care, Wabo!  Some lady in the gym yesterday was telling me I should just go to enjoy it.  Don't think she understood the principle of PBs, trying for bloody years etc etc!  Bless her .

The calculators also assume a certain level of consistent training for the duration of the programme. So you might train well for 8 weeks, fly round your 10k, then get tired, ill, miss a few runs or just not run them as hard as McMillan or whoever thinks you should to achieve a particular time.

The other thing is that whatever the calculators say, 10k isn't a brilliant predictor of marathon time because it's so much shorter. A better predictor is a half mara.

I have swum. In a pool. But kept going solidly for an hour with no drinking, chatting, resting or touching the wall and pushing off. Go me.

I went out at lunch and did 47 mins for a flat 10k up the Monsal Trail and back. I have run quicker but not gone sub four yet. 45 something is my quickest 10k but never raced one with other folk always done it on my own. 1.42 half last GNR so I must be able to go sub four......surely. Its training for the last six miles thats the hard thing to do. Endurance perhaps gym work and some weight would help as it has for Mo Farah who knows good talking point though.

I had both a sub 50 10k and a 1.45 half before my first attempt. The result was 4.36 however what I now know is the lack of long runs was the issue. A good target is for your longest 5 runs to add up to 100 miles HOWEVER they should be a run not a race I got totaly fixed on sub 3 for 20 miles. I did achieve it but totaly drained at the end. When they say the marathon is a 20/6 split there correct

The other thing is and others will tell you Im no expert! that like many sports its a lot to do with your mind set (Yes Susan Iknow I know)

Glad you're feeling better, Susan.

Êtes-vous en MontMartre IkleButton? Beaucoup de collines là-bas.

From various people on here and friends, the way I see it the McMillan and others are assuming a fitness "curve" applies to everyone... which it doesn't. Everyone varies. So fit youngster with big heart rate range will smash the 5k/ 10k end of things but often wont have the endurance for half and especially the marathon... so off the curve at that end.. Its what they could do but its only a rule of thumb.. Also wonder if they take male/ female into account in their stats properly.

Was it silver fox on here, who had done 1:46-7 but not sub 4, oh and Martin too.. And mcs, off those times you should be able to go sub4.. just the endurance missing? whats in the plan this time for you - I aim for 3-5 x 18-20 milers, and also 10-12 mile mid week runs at MP or faster in the last month or so. Length of taper important too, 3-4 weeks.

AH That IS a fabulous treadmill session. bang on the paces you need for sub 4, 7.15-7.30 min miles need to be your 5k pace for 9mm to feel okay.

I did read an article about treadmill running which pointed out it worked the quads more & the hamstrings less so could mean a weakness there if not worked on, some strength work but I'm sure you already do some.. will try find it.

WT, welcome back, when is your half? Think you had one booked ? Stick with the cross fit, it really works.  Convinced its helping me get stronger/ faster.

Susan - glad you're feeling better. Wouldn't wish Shingles on anyone.. 3 weeks of agony and not being able to sleep... mine was across my face and jaw.

Calf a little sore so a few days rest for me. Still able to go to gym though for the above mentioned circuits last night .. no treadmills in our gym  MRT session so 3 runs through 10-12 exercises, 30 seconds work, 10 rest, then 2 minutes recovery then start again... A lot like a tough interval or sprint session.

At a gig in Manchester last night, thought we had seats but standing all night.. legs tired, fairly warm and started to feel hot. bit of a cold/ flu coming on now with all those people around us. Calf strangely feels better for all the standing, and would be a bit weird to go to running club on Valentine's Day anyway.

Talking of race predictions. Last year 56 mins for 10k 1hr 57 for a half 4 hrs 15 for 2 marathons

We are all very different. My best marathon time was 4hrs 5 mins when my 10k was 49 mins (2005)

Doing Village Bakery half on Sunday so wondering how slow/fast I will do that. Took me forever to do 16 yesterday

Ooooo.. its exhausting reading about what you have to do to go sub 4 .. my oh my.. I am sure I never did all of that but maybe a bit more speed sessions but never done more than 1 x 20 and 1 x 18-- I know its me - slack susan  - but I have TuTu pacing me well my one and only sub 4 - and ten others between 4 and 4.30..

they have all said it  - its 20 miles then 6 .. thats the race - and the mind is strongly involved.  Believe and you are more likely to do it - relax too - thats a big one.

did an 8 miler this morning to see that I could - only missed a couple of runs but on this thread easy to feel under training - was very good to see a colleague at Harrow Green (our relocation company - dont forget if your office needs a move I am your woman) anyway - Ian is doing london and his longest run so far is 9 miles !! I love him.  Realise you lot are in a different class. 

reckon Wabo will be giving me a run for my money Saturday at Parliament hill - got half on sunday too so will have to pace myself