sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

all welcome

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24/02/2013 at 22:43
I reckon TOTP?

Martin, you are a nutter. 4 in 4 days. Might as well just do a 100 miler...

Welcome Khanivore. Helps to know if you are male/ female, rough age & maybe a 10k time too? Was the half today a flat one or hilly?

1:52 is tight for half to a full sub 4 marathon. There are no set rules though, some have done it just on 1:52-54, others needed sub 1:50 and lower, depends on the course and also how good your endurance. Women in theory convert better than men.

We've been discussing long run pace a few pages back, as have other faster threads, sounds like you are spot on at the moment.. The first few 20s always feel really hard, and bear no relation to your final time, just building the legs and body for it first.

Don't worry about the time on your first one, best to enjoy it.
Edited: 24/02/2013 at 22:44
24/02/2013 at 22:54

Hi Cat, thanks for the welcome - I'm a 41 year old bloke who has been running since may. The first half marathon in November was pan flat. The second one was Brighton which had a gentle incline for a couple of miles but that was about it. I had an injury betweent he two so i wasn't expecing to do it in the same time as the first one.

I know i'm meant to just enjoy the first one. I had actually decided to do that. However, today someone once again told me they thought i had a sub 4 in me and it got the fire lit again. I haven't run any 10k's at all recently.

I have another half marathon next weekend. I was going to run it at 9 min/mile and see how I feel at the end. Maybe that will be a good indicator.

25/02/2013 at 07:50
khanivore first welcome.
I agree with FRC currently I think its a tough one for you. in fact you remind me if me 5 years ago when I did my first. If I could have that first time again I would have just enjoyed it. Very few people complete a marathon if it takes over 4 hours
so what. If you decide to do more then go for a time. It took me 5 goes but got there

Either way stick around its a great thread you will loads of support just dont worry about some of the times people do training runs in
25/02/2013 at 07:59
frc you know how close I came but the the idea of 4 days with other nutters was the difference
25/02/2013 at 10:58

Quadzilla sounds brilliant, Martin.  Annoyingly appealing.

Khanivore - you sound very sorted with your attitude/paces/training. You're new to running so you never know, you might continue to improve up to and through the marathon and get the magic sub 4, but your HM time is prob a smidge on the wrong side of borderline. Having said that, my PB (4.00.15) was done off a HM PB of about 1.49 - can't remember.  Subsequent marathons with a better HM PB of 1.47 were slower.  Just keep training hard and enjoying it and you never know. 

25/02/2013 at 10:59

Oh, meant to say, my club mate Lou Damen only went and won the National XC champs again on Saturday!

25/02/2013 at 12:55
I'm excited about Silverstone half on Sunday. Looks like a big event!
25/02/2013 at 14:23

IB do try gels (start off with a squeezy bottle of golden or maple syrup if the idea really freaks you out - the gels are not much different but have a mix of sugars to optimize absorption ). They make a big difference I think, particularly in those last hard miles. 

Khanivore, going sub-four *right now* sounds a bit of a stretch, but "in the next couple of years" - absolutely possible if you put in the work. My HM PB is 1:53 and I scraped a 3:59 once, but I don’t do many HMs seriously so possibly if I worked as hard for a half as I did for the 3:59, my HM PB would be better.

I'd suggest treating your first couple of marathons as fact-finders and then make a serious attempt when you have the confidence of those experiences under your belt. 

Also, remember you only need 9:09 m/m for 4h, not 9:00 - makes all the difference;)


Hang around, Iirc my pb was 4:18(?) when I joined here! 


In other news - Malta not a good day - when will I learn, eating crap for months and pasta the night before *bad bad idea*. But props to the Hamburg resident Italian who kept me company for miles when I had a hurry leg - bless the man, so kind. The young guy I was shepherding in to his first marathon outsprinted me at the end after reviving remarkably once he spied the finish! Nice weather mind. 

25/02/2013 at 15:33

Well, it's a bloody good training run, Fido, and you look fab in all the pics.  I too had someone try to outsprint me at the end of a race last week when I'd nursed them round. #Charming

25/02/2013 at 20:31

Getting closer to my sub 7min pace 5k...

I will be Jovi standard soon 

25/02/2013 at 22:02
Keep meaning to say - I've been in touch with Tutu. She must be about to pop, but nothing as of yesterday. Can't be long now
25/02/2013 at 22:35

Gosh Dave, that's amazing. If I could do 7:30 I would be so happy...

AH, what a tantalising mara PB you have! And rather fabulous of course.

25/02/2013 at 22:42

And hello Kahnivore. Here's some more stats for you:

My half PB is 1:48:35 and my marathon PB is 4:10 (unofficial, ie. not in a race) But all this was sub hurty knees. Now my knees are unhurty once more (Hooray for The Running School!) and my best recent (ish) half is 1:52. Ask me after the 14th Brighton what my marathon PB is now! Hoping for sub 4, OBVIOUSLY. And I feel just the same as you about running 20 miles at 9:09 minute pace. And Fido is right. Those extra nine seconds... We've got lots of training left to do so it's everything to play for. Huzzah!

Am I allowed some kind of mini taper this week too? Was thinking of a shortish run tomorrow, say 6 miles, and just a slow parkrun on Sat, prior to Silverstone race the next day. Which I AM going to race, because it's too exciting not to. Plus, what do I do about the 7 miles short of my 20 LSD that I'll be down on that day? Can I leave it out? Or is it ok to do it later that day, even though it obviously doesn't count as one run.

Questions, questions.

I've got lots and lots of sums flying round in my head as I try and organise my mental splits for Sunday that involve aiming to get the right side of 1 hour 50... =)

Edited: 25/02/2013 at 22:58
26/02/2013 at 07:19
I hate to tell you Ickle but on the day you have to do more than 20 miles at 9.09 ... It's 26.2

Ooo how exciting Tutu will soon be a mum!
26/02/2013 at 07:20
Def have a mini taper Ickle.....
26/02/2013 at 12:40

Hate the repeat posts when you refresh a page.

Have swum. NExt time I swim it'll be in an open air pool. In the sun I hope!

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 12:42
26/02/2013 at 12:47

Ikle can you change things around so you can do 20 next week? No point in doing it later in the day - will just delay the recovery you'll need irf you're going to race Silverstone - and, as you say, won't mean you've done 20 miles.

Whether you taper depends on whether you're really going out for a PB at Silverstone. It's great to have a good old go at a good race, but we're only 6 weeks away from Brighton so you've got to make sure you aren't so brilliant on Sunday you don't recover.  I'd have thought it would be worth having a couple of easy days, giving Silverstone a good go without turning yourself inside out to do it, then carry on training next week after a couple of easy days. A bit of a half way house - ie not marathon training properly, not HMing properly etc, but if Brighton is your goal you've got to be in a good state to carry on training.  The next 3 or 4 weeks are so important so you don't reeeeeally want too much of a rest right in the middle. Consistency is key.

Just my thoughts.


26/02/2013 at 13:03

Susan spot on as always. 26.2 to do at under 9:09... really want to be comfortably under so think of those 9 seconds as tying shoe laces, dropping gels, having to run around people, loo break, doing a stretch or two if needed.  9 seconds x 26, gives you 4 minute buffer.

Ikle, little mini taper sounds good, very easy run Thursday 11-12 min miles if you want to is fine, park run@ sloth pace, say hello to the trees, pace someone or chat. For Sunday, likely doing a warm up jog anyway, 1/2 - 1 mile very slow, plus whatever routine TRS have you do stretches, lunges, high knees, heel flicks, strides etc to open up hips, get muscles activated.

Silverstone is 2 laps, why not take a 5-10 minute break, grab a sports drink or some munchies, flapjack, malt loaf and do a very slow 5 miles cool down with Basey or a pal, can always go past the finish line and do 2.5 miles out then back. Running on those tired legs is a good experience. Big advantage , you can affort to rest the weekend after and do 12 ish long run, a kick back. 

Any Tutu news?

Khanivore, unless a sudden improvement at say 5k/10k, just enjoy it. Suspect you will finish somewhere low 4 hrs but if you try and force sub 4 pace from start, could end up a painful slow last 6-10 miles and finish much slower, 15-45 minutes is not impossible.

 Fido, good mara from you, you always look good in photos!

 I'd not heard the maple syrup tip.. Just need to add pancakes and you might tempt me. That marathon I did for fun(?) & ultra training at Xmas, the look of disgust when the guy thought I was joking about taking Mr Kipling's "gels" and then pulled a fondant fancy out. Priceless

 DtF, Jovi is sub 7 mm for 15k not 5k! Some catching up.

I had a really good PT session, worked all over but not heavy stuff or fast cardio, was agility, mobility and stability. Lots of single leg dead lifts on wobble board (mentioned before) & then single leg jumps with the distance marked - but only if the landing was stable, no falling over or loosing balance.... definitely made me appreciate long & triple jump technique. Lots of other good stuff, glute/ hamstring activation and some running technique. Tough but doable on a rest day in future.

Speed tonight.

26/02/2013 at 13:04

Hello all

Ikle- Race and then do the 7 monday on tired legs would be my view

Ok Quick race report now Im home so spelling should be better!

Arrived at the start to find the original entry of 55 had dropped to 47 as some people had decided it was to cold to run.

As always the start of an ultra is a strange thing people just jog off which is always a bit strange. I was wearing 3 layers including a thick top but was glad by the end. First 9 miles along the coast fairly nice views but with such a small number of people I was soon running alone  Marshalls every 5 miles were great jelly baby overkill but Then turned round and ran back 3 miles so meeting a few coming the other way. Next turn left and a bit of a surprise. One reason for not doing this run was told it was flat coast yes. inland in Wales I think not. From mile 13 all the way to the 2nd turn round at 23 miles was uphill Not steep but constant so in the end a perfect Comrades training run. Switched to a 9/1 run walk but still going quicker than original plan. At the 23 mile mark it was turn round time and run back down. Despite the hill and run walk went bthrough the 26 mile marker in 4.03. At this stage I was thinking a) WELL DONE b) FOOL! so slowed right down and walked a lot more from there. I did have 1 more target which I did achieve as I have never done a 50k race (Cancelled Gloucester) this year but did go under 5 hours. From the 33 mile point the last 7 were back along the coast I think 3 people overtook me and urged me on but for some it was probably there target race for me not. Anyway apart from a toe that started to hurt each time I began to run but then eased after a few seconds I was OK. Only thing I have got to work on is food. After 30 miles I just dont want any and even though I know I should its all I can do to take on liquid. My GARMIN had also died so need a normal watch for C so did not know my time until I finished. I knew I was safe under 7 but very pleased with the 6.38 for 10mm if not even pace. I had come 15th overall so happy with that as well

3 days on not run yet but think I may swim tonight. Running next week but after a marathon PB and a 40 in the last 3 weeks I think a week off is allowed.

For thoses who follow me on FB you know this bit but the only question left to answer is a target time for Comrades. Last time 10.23. I will be attempting sub 10 but if the training and weather are right a sub 9 which gets me a different medal will be attempted

26/02/2013 at 17:40

I love this thread.  You'll get as many viewpoints and ideas as there are posts

Just got hold of the programme for Lanza.  Am v relieved to see a nice threshold session on Friday (although I think I'll add some longer efforts in, too) and the long run's on Sunday. Was worried the timetable wouldn't allow for doing an LSR before the Jantastic deadline. Am so excited that I won't be having to do any of the bike sessions. Hurrah!  Gives me so much more of the day to loll around the pool. Oh, and swim a lot.

I know you all hate me. Will shut up.  Jovi hasn't spoken to me yet, I don't think...   It won't be the same without her and Tutu. No baby news as far as I'm aware, but you never know ,it might all be happening Right Now.

Oh, Tutu and Jovi - that weird guy is going again. The one who I gave a lift to the airport to and he didn't say thank you or ANYthing.

Edited: 26/02/2013 at 17:42
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