sub 4 hour group,if anyone wants to get together

all welcome

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04/02/2014 at 10:59

Isn't it wadge??

04/02/2014 at 21:12

I think wodge or wadge works  

Ikle you have to replace I don't want to do this with "I love this, I am so lucky to be able to run" and then you will float along.

been to track .. 4 th week in a row ... I am the Tin Man 

05/02/2014 at 07:49

True true true. All good. Ran 5k this morning before work with 3 800m intervals quickish but not quick enough. Will attempt a 13 miler at the weekend just to see. Such a necessary stress buster from work at the mo. Maybe X training tonight at the gym too. Strength stuff, squats, etc.

06/02/2014 at 07:34

Ran home from work to beat the tube strike, and met friends for a quick three miles .. Tired legs .. Good photos from Watford half running in big puddles check it out Sussex photography .. My number, 59 ! 

06/02/2014 at 16:30

Hi everyone - wanted to pop in and ask a bit of advice.  I havent been on this forum before because I thought i might be sub 4:30 but since i started running again (after 2 years) in July I think sub 4 at my first marathon (london) is possible. 

My question is around pacing in training when aiming for sub 4.  Ive heard many things for long run being 30 secs or even 2 mins slower than race pace.

Any advice would be good - I dont check my garmin for pace apart from after every mile or two (turned the pace part off!) and run to how i feel.  Up to 18 miles now at 9:30-9:45 pace and felt heavy legs but great really all things considered.  I also did half in 1:44 - although it was largely downhill

06/02/2014 at 19:30

shedboy, I ran my first long run at 'steady pace' at the weekend and felt fine leg wise.  this makes me suspect that you are over doing it, after such a long injury. 


you clearly have natural pace your hm time is testimony to this.  You know you have pace so you do not have to worry about this.  what you do need to concentrate on is endurance, running for close to 4 hours without hitting the wall at mile 21/22.

to achieve this I suggest you slow down on your long runs, bang in a mid week long run of 10 miles plus and run both at 2 mins slower than your 10k pace.  for added endurance training use a back pack every other week or long slow hill running. 


the science behind this is the slow twitch muscle fibres.  do a quick google for further info.


if running two minutes slower is difficult, shorten your stride length and maintain your cadence.  basically tiny steps; feels a bit odd but is less effort.


he's a link re hill training and slow twitch muscle fibres

n.b many runners who can hit a 1:45 to 1:40 hm but fail to achieve a sub 4 marathon.  most of the time it is down to training too hard during long runs.


for confidence you can always add 2 or 3 long steady runs in the weeks prior to your taper.

06/02/2014 at 19:36

I do my LSR at 10 min miles... Ish or even slower. Not managed sub 4 though yet. 10 mins over. This time!!

06/02/2014 at 21:06

Wow Pete thats amazing advice yeah you are probably right.  I wasnt injured for two years just had enough so became a spin class guru(got fitter than ever).  Thanks doing london?  How is training.


Again Pete brilliant advice thank you so much. 

07/02/2014 at 06:40

I run as slow as I fancy on my long runs. I see them as tests of endurance, damn the speed. Just about to head out for 13 miles before I start work today.. should be fun.


07/02/2014 at 07:18

Thanks will add a sorta long run mid week too not sure about being a speed merchant but my main aim is to finish so endurance has to be top priority...and i love the easy slow runs .. Although they get a bit lonely and i have been known to say good morning to the sheep as well as randomly talking to myself...thats endurance  enjoy your run acoops

07/02/2014 at 09:27
Good running Susan.

Acoops hope weather is okay.

Shedboy your half of 1:44 is recent? You should do sub 4 and below but there are no givens in a marathon. Your pace sounds about right but I'd aim for 9:30-10mm next few weeks as you get up to 20 miles.. Get the endurance right first.. then start adding in some sections at marathon pace at the end as you get nearer to VLM
Mid week runs definitely, I run these at MP or just below. Or as tempo intervals.

I wouldn't bother with the weighted back pack. Too risky.
07/02/2014 at 09:59

Hi Fit running cat - November.  I have enough weighted front pack to contend with so will skip the backpack.  I do have a running belt and am practising gels.  I do tempo runs ... but not enough in my view.  all things being said as long as i get to start line fit and healthy i am not going to beat myself up for a sub 4 but it would be nice

07/02/2014 at 12:41

Thanks Shedboy. I would listen to FRC rather than me, he's the technical expert in these parts. 

It was a bit miserable out this morn, drizzly rain, started in the dark. I talk to myself more than the sheep, though today I had a nice chat with a very kind man who gave me a lift through a flood. Feels good to have my long run out of the way before the weekend has even started - not so great for productivity though. My body is used to lounging about post run, not this whole thinking lark.

Edited: 07/02/2014 at 13:37
07/02/2014 at 13:41
Acoops, Glad you got your run out of the way. The weekend is all yours.

Plenty of experts on here, Susan, AH, Howard, Martin, Jovi. . Susan knows my love of numbers though. Have done leadership in running fitness, aiming to do full coaching course this year, time permitting with 4-5 marathons and 2-3 ultras planned.

The 2 sessions a week with the Team GB elite athlete are very inspiring though, great variety, so refreshing. Club sessions were getting a little stale and lack of structure for me and even more so mrs FRC. Definitely helping my speed.

Shedboy, sure you'll be fine, sub 4 is well within your range - train well and get to the start line healthy is main aim.
You mention feeling heavy legged after 18 miles, maybe just back off a touch, don't worry about the mile splits, go roughly 9:30-10mm (60-90s approx above race pace) so working the right energy sources. Better to get the long runs in than risk injury, or go too fast and be tired for next session.

For us men, we tend to have more speed and less endurance than ladies, so we dip into those energies to chase the pace on the long run - big mistake. Then come race day we start too fast, then confused when we can't keep the pace going for 26 miles.

Lot to learn on your first marathon, you will make mistakes or something unexpected.. The folks on here will all help. Mine, my half time was faster than yours @1:39, but managed to do 3:48. It's in my blog, PM me or google my RW name.

After 2 lots of speed work and intervals, long run for me this weekend. 16-20. What's everyone else doing?
07/02/2014 at 13:41
07/02/2014 at 13:56

Thanks FRC - ive really worked at the long "slow" run - the route i take is exceptionally hilly and the quads feel it big time but i reckon it should put me in good stead for a flat London (or here is hoping!!).  I will concentrate on how i feel.

Did 13 easy today (130 mins and 1 sec ...hows that for 10mm average eh!!) - easier week and then off skiing for a week.

Question - do i simply not run next week (I am supposed to have two easier weeks of 13 milers then the 20's start).  My plan was do the 13 today and on the sunday i get back as in the alps it might be a tad slippy!!!  I'm getting a nervous feeling though that i should try and find a treadmill somewhere and do a couple of runs.  I squeezed a few more runs in this week (bad i know) to compensate but will a week off still exercising set me back? Had booked holiday before i got into London!!!


any advice?

07/02/2014 at 17:05

Hills are supposed to be super amazing for marathons. I am just having my piano tuned by Andy, a semi blind tuner who is also it turns out, running London with a guide and is going for sub 4! So I shall look out for him! What fun! 

Oh, it's so nice people have come back to chat about running again! Martin 24601 has so far run 2 of his 4 marathons and all is well I believe! 

08/02/2014 at 13:52

Oops, spoke too soon. Everybody's gone again. What's the matter; got a LIFE or something!?! 

Boy, is it windy today. Did my 3 miles (had to add on point one, couldn't resist) and doing 13 tomorrow. 

Can't believe my piano tuner's doing VLM, and didn't know that you had to train slower than race pace! 

08/02/2014 at 15:09

Did 15 miles yesterday at 6am to get long run out of the way to head West .. Did an hour on my own prob about 9 min mi,es, go too fast on my own , then met up with mates and slowed down ended up doing 9 miles more slower so overall time 2.30. So much easier and enjoyable running and chatting. That's how I like to pace. 

Then headed to BRISTOL TO see youngest at uni saw Dallas Buyers Club took him for nice steak dinner then to see good mate in a band. THENat 11.30 pm headed down to Cornwall through driving wind and rain. Staying at dear old friends fir a 60 th birthday party near Padstow.. Rick Steins coming .. So lovely to be in Cornwall .. No running for metil Tuesday .. Hurrah .. Rest days ! 

08/02/2014 at 15:34

Well done Susan for your 15 miler. Fab! I never run 9 minute miles by accident! 

Me, Basey and son looked at houses today. Exciting! Trying to adjust to living in middle class housing, to match the rest of me. Heh. 

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