Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Colin

Introducing the second member of our ASICS Target 26.2 team - Colin (aka knight rider) PB Hunter Colin will be mentored by Steve Smythe on t...

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17/12/2011 at 00:09
Congratulations KR
17/12/2011 at 00:32

Thanks Steve, look forward to meeting you tomorrow (or is that today now? ).

Hi Andy, I followed your thread last time too and you did well. Brighton is a good course and I believe the organisers have just made it a bit more flatter to try and attract more elite athletes. I think they have taken out one of the earlier hills around the city centre. That makes it sound like a hilly affair but it's not. There a few climbs but not too bad and once you get to 10 miles it's downhill and flat the rest of the way. I'd got a place for Brighton in 2012 too, so will have to see if I can defer to 2013.

Just finished wrapping my wifes' birthday presents so it's off to bed now.

17/12/2011 at 09:50
Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)
Congratulations KR

Steve MC, nice to see you again, you have one of the widest po10 entries I have ever seen due to a marathon career that spanes back to 1976! I did my first in 1985 but I have major gaps (19 years) in it. if any deserves your nickname, marathon coach, it is you.

Are you planning another marathon this year and if so which?

17/12/2011 at 14:48
Hi AIWfC etc!

Power of ten has a fair proportion of my races but still missing 700 odd!
Probably doing London but not that fit but still hope to be close to 3
17/12/2011 at 15:35
*Makes secret plan to follow Steve around VLM*
17/12/2011 at 17:13

Knight Rider, I hope the weekend is going well and you have got a good idea of what the team have got lined up for you between now and 15th April.
It would be interesting to see you full marathon history as your short distance times suggest that a 3:15 time is well within your reach, but as you know it all depends on the day, so interesting to see what happened on your previous outings.

I am not using p& d for my training schedule, I had always used the RW ones but never managed to hit the race day target (struggled at 20 miles), also tried a modified Firman and dabbled in P & D but they did not get me where I hoped to be either so I am under Moraghan`s wing now, and very pleased indeed with how that is progresssing.

Hi Steve Marathon Coach,
I very much enjoyed all you did last year for the super six and for all us others who exploited your knowledge as much as we could. Looking forward to following again and I am sure this will be a positive thread to follow over the next 4 months.

17/12/2011 at 19:23
Hi KR, echoing Shaggy's enquiry I think it would be good to see you go through your marathons in a bit more detail with regards mileage beforehand, races in the buildup, number of long runs, paces, etc.
I remember you going into Brighton in April this year brimming with confidence but not getting the right result that your training suggested. Basically I am trying to see if your marathon results to date are a product of your training or something that's going wrong on the day with nutrition perhaps? Hasn't cramps affected you at the wrong time?
Anyone capable of doing a 5k at 6m00s pace should be shattering the 3-15 barrier!

Hope the day in London went well.
18/12/2011 at 10:08

Had a great and overwhelming day in London and were very well looked after. It was an early start and train journey down to London to meet the team and Rosie, Emma, Lee and Craig.

We started off with a 3d foot scan which does exactly wht it says and not only measures the foot length, but also width depth, heel  & toe angles etc and scans a footprint of your feet. This suggested I was a neutral runner and It was the on the treadmill next for a gait analysis and tried out a few pairs of shoes. Went for the Nimbus in the end and they felt comforatable. After picking out a bit of kitit was off to the Bupa centre for for a Medical check. Everything was checked, weight, height, blood pressure and lung capacity. Then I was rigged up with an ECG, face mask and blood pressuer strap and on the treadmill. Starte off at a brisk walk for 2 minutes (2.5 miles an hour), then the pace was upped to a light jog for another 2 minutes (3.7 mph), then upped again to a good pace (5mph), then 6.2mph and finally 7.5mph. All the time the heart rate and lung capacity were being measured and blood pressure measured and 2 mnute intervals. The test was over when I'd reached 85% heart rate. Results showed I have a VO2 max of 51.9 which ain't too bad. There were also lots of  graphs showing heart rate, blood pressure and lung capaicty over the test and how each time the pace was increased the heart apated and then leveled out. All very interesting statistics. I also met Steve and went through the schedule I'll be following, so I'll be posting what I'm doing for the week on a Monday. Then it was a dash back on the train and out for a meal with my wife & friends to celebrate her birthday.

Just going out for a LSR now to pick up the car, so wil post some more details later regarding my previous marathon training and races.

18/12/2011 at 13:33

Hey Colin, we met at BC - I will be following your thread but will have to adapt things to my pace - I am trying to go under 4 hrs and there is no-one in the team who fits my times so will make adjustments to your schedule etc.  Will also follow Rosie and do the same. (my 10k PB of 47min and Half of 1:45 suggest I can do this but can't get under 4:10 after 8 attempts so must be doing something wrong in training)

I would be really interested, as a first point, to know what Steve has given you re pace for your long runs ?  MP plus ..?

Glad you had a great day yesterday - you must have felt like a pro.

18/12/2011 at 14:55

Oscarr- I'm also a sub-4 target marathoner- I've managed it at Lochaber twice, but only by a minute or 2. All my others have been in the range 4:12- 4:25 .Your 10k and half times are similar to mine.

Ive tried -Hal Higdon- which broke my knees- so switched to Firman 3 days per week ( OK, as at the time anything more frequent would result in injuries- but all the runs are horribly hard, and you run out of steam at 18 miles)

P&D- sorry  I just don't have enough time/ energy in my life for all that mileage! I was exhausted by about 8 weeks before the race, and the last few weeks had very little trainig

Now trying HADD base training until 8 weeks before , and will go for a short "sharpening" training plan to get some speed into my legs- I always lack endurance, but want to go off too fast in the race.

I wish I knew the answer.........................

18/12/2011 at 20:43

Sounds like an excellent day yesterday KR.  It's always good to find out that you are fit and healthy, especially with the amount of training you are going to push your body through over the next four months.

Looking forward to seeing what Steve has in store for you over the next few weeks. 

Tricialitt - I followed P&D 55-70mpw schedule last year but cut down on the overall mileage knowing my body wouldn't handle it.   I maxed out at 59m with an average of 51mpw. I shortened most runs but added in extra 20m runs to ensure extra endurance.  I'm cobbling together my own schedule this year from past experience.

18/12/2011 at 22:32

Hi Shaggy & MM, bit of my marathon history. First marathon was VLM in 2010 and I followed the RW sub 3.15 schedule. This seemed to work and got 3.22.10 (which is still my PB). As it was London the start was crazy and very crowded to the point where it was stop start. I think my first mile was 9.30 and the folowing 2 were aroun 8 - 8.30. Fmailiar story of running on pavement to dodge slower runners. It took me till 6 miles to get down to 7.30 pace. From then on I felt fine. Although I didn't hit the wall, I felt exhausted from about mile 22 and managed to hang on to the end.

Next up was Brighton earlier this year in April. I had a great build up and used the RW sub 3.15 schedule again but did more longer midweek runs up to 12/13 miles and was regularly doing 50 miles per week and got 5 x 20 mile runs in the process. Brighton was unseasonally hot this year and I think there were a combination of things which led to me getting cramp. Although I was drinking water and taking in gels I didn't take any of the supplied sports drinks in the race. In the days before I don't think I had taken on enough carbs and this is a bit of a grey area for me, knowing specifically what but also how much and how often. In the race itself I knew Gobi was pace making @ 3.10 pace. I started a bit behind and managed to tag onto his group by mile 2. The pace felt fine and I stuck with them till mile 10 when I did a mental calculation, which suggested I was going to fast and I dropped off their group and tried to slow my pace. I went through halfway i just over 1.34 and felt okay. My mile 18 I could feel twinges in my calves and it was downhill from then having to stop every so often to stretch. Slowing my pace down to about 8mm did seem to work a bit but then the cramps would come back. To be honnest I think the damage had been done from the earlier miles.

18/12/2011 at 22:33

Chester in October was my 3rd marathon. Again, I used the same kind of schedule although this time I managed to get 6 x 20 mile runs in and was still doing the longer mid week runs. I carb loaded for 2 days  before the race(again not knowing eactly what I should be eating and the quantity needed) and had 2 sports drinks the day before too. In the rcae itself I started off more steady and was knocking out the miles at an average 7.20 pace. I took a sports drink @ 12 miles - very sweet (Sainsbury's own brand provided by the organisers) and managed to drink it over the course of 2 miles. I went through halfway in 1.36.xx and knew I was on for a good time. When I got to mile 16 I could feel some twinges again in my calves. It wasn't long after that the cramp set in and a familiar case of stopping & stretching. I think when the cramp had come back I felt defeated having gone through it before and finished in 3.36.xx.

On reflection I didn't have any massages whilst training, so basically I did 2 x back to back marathon campaigns without the use of massage. Post Chester I had a massage and couldn't believe the difference it made. So this time I will be having regular massages so there isn't a build up of tension. Another thing I am going to be building into my training, is more regular strecthing. I normally only stretch “a bit” after a run but that is it. Another element will be doing core exercises which will help my running posture.

Edited: 18/12/2011 at 22:48
18/12/2011 at 22:55
oscarr wrote (see)

I would be really interested, as a first point, to know what Steve has given you re pace for your long runs ?  MP plus ..?

Glad you had a great day yesterday - you must have felt like a pro.

Hi Oscar, will hopefully be getting my schdule through soon, but it is basically the RW sub 3.15 schedule with maybe a few tweaks. As far as pace for long runs is concerned, a general rulle of thought is MP +60 seconds, but this dpeends on whether you know what your marathon pace actually is. WIll keep you posted on what pace I'll be doing them.

Ended up doing a shorter run than planned 7 mile run this morning (av pace 7.23) picking up the car form the night before which takes me up to 31 miles for the week from 4 runs.

19/12/2011 at 08:38
KR - sounds like you had a great time on Saturday - 3D foot scan sounds cool and you're probably still taking in all those stats. Looking forward to seeing your schedule for the week.
19/12/2011 at 08:58
Thanks for that KR. I knew that your training had find well in terms of mileage with enough long runs, enough mid week long runs, etc. It's the issue of cramp and fuelling that you look like you need to address. When I did this two years ago I booked in sports massage every 2 weeks and I kept on top of niggles and the like. Because I never suffered with cramp it never occurred to me it was because I'd taken a proactive approach to it.
I don't think your schedule that you're following will give you any problems especially if you've essentially followed it three times already and will be using it again this time round
19/12/2011 at 09:13

Sounds like you had a gread day KR. 

I'm intrested to know about the cramp and what pointers you've been (or will be) given over that.  I'm pretty sure whenever I've suffered its been down to just going too hard in the earlier miles (never had it on a marathon - always shorter distances) but it's interesting to see if there maybe other factors. 

19/12/2011 at 10:39
I'm envious of your day in London KR, and I bet a few of stats geeks over on the 3.15 thread are hoping for a run down of those figures!

Are you taking a break before you start your schedule? My break came early due to lurgy (9 days and no running, not that I'm counting )
19/12/2011 at 11:11

Tricialitt - thanks, its comforting to know that you have gone under 4 hrs with similar shorter distance times as mine.  I am going to put a lot of effort into designing my schedule for my next marathon and will tweak it in a similar way that Martin HHH is going to do.

I followed the RW Ultimate 3:45 schedule for my first few marathons (done 8 now) then tweaked it into my own following the basic principles and adding runs I enjoy doing like Yasso 800's. 

I've read a lot of the recent forum feedback about doing hard long runs in training and this, plus reflections of what has gone wrong in the past, has led me to the conclusion that my efforts to improve have worked against me and I have been starting my marathon races exhausted from doing too much in training.  It's not the mileage that's been the problem (peak at 50) but intensity - for example I did some of my 20 mile runs at MP and did a lot of speedwork midweek at flat out pace.

So, my target for this time is keep the mileage up but make sure the pace of all runs (from speedwork to LSRs) is right i.e. slower than before.

KR - thanks for the feedback re pace for LSRs - 60 secs slower than MP will be a challenge for me but is somehting I will certainly do.  4hr target means 9m MP and 10m LSR pace - "..simple!.."  Look forward to seeing your schedule.  Bet you're still on cloud nine?

19/12/2011 at 12:08
oscarr wrote (see)
KR - thanks for the feedback re pace for LSRs - 60 secs slower than MP will be a challenge for me but is somehting I will certainly do.  4hr target means 9m MP and 10m LSR pace - "..simple!.."  Look forward to seeing your schedule.  Bet you're still on cloud nine?
The +60 is a loose thing. P&D say long runs should start out at +20% and move up to +10%.  If MP is 9 m/m, then you should be between MP +54 and +108 seconds.
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