Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Colin

Introducing the second member of our ASICS Target 26.2 team - Colin (aka knight rider) PB Hunter Colin will be mentored by Steve Smythe on t...

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19/12/2011 at 21:02
Oops - thought I was posting on sub-3:15 there !
19/12/2011 at 21:13
Interesting history KR.

I did Abingdon in October and was well on course for 3hr20. Got hamstring cramps for the first time ever in the last two miles and had to trot/walk in for a 3hr23. On reflection I needed to boost my average weekly mileage (didn't go beyond 44), shorten my taper (5 weeks!) and carb load (I didn't really). In relation to the latter I saw a physio immediately after the race who questioned my salt intake in the final taper week. The gist being that he felt my "low salt" diet is not always conducive to distance running. He recommended using maldern salt granuals liberally on meals in the final week rather than the synthetic stuff.
19/12/2011 at 21:35
Who was it that swears by eating a packet of crisps a day in the week leading up to the marathon? That might be worth a try!

19/12/2011 at 21:45

Hi Andy, I think we all need to learn to carb load properly . I guess I also fall into the low salt intake category, as I'm sure most runners do. I don't add salt to food. It's alway interesting when i visit my parents to see how much salt they chuck in the pan when cooking potatoes and even pasta! I think that is a generation gap thing, although increasing salt intake is probably a good thing. A guy in my running Club swears on a couple of packets of Doritos in the days leading up to a marathon.

Hi Birch, liking the xmas twist to your forum name!

19/12/2011 at 21:45
TR loves his crisps as a low tech solution to having enough salt in his diet.

I'll second the pint of milk as a recovery drink. A clubmate of mine swears by chocolate milk shake afterwards: Nesquick, Drink, Forgoodnessshakes etc. That and a banana should be plenty

Is it worth putting a pinch of.salt in your drinks on your long runs?
19/12/2011 at 21:46
CC2 - Speedy Goth wrote (see)
Who was it that swears by eating a packet of crisps a day in the week leading up to the marathon? That might be worth a try!
That would be Martin Ho Ho Ho.
19/12/2011 at 22:17

Indeed I have a few packets in the last few days and some marmite on toast. But I still got stopped by cramp at 23M for the first time this time though. The two possible reasons IMO were salt loss due to how much I sweat being 12 stone running 6:30 pace esp after a winter of running in teh cold at 6am, and a lack of MP work. I also made a deliberate attempt to lift the pace at the 23M point too, which probably didnt help - I was a bit worried that I had too much left in the bank, and I'd struggle to deal with that after the race.

This time I will do a bit more MP work at the end of long runs, go back to my 20M build up at MP (this yr it was MP +15 secs) and do a bit more MP work. I will also carry a bottle of sports drink that I will chug and finish in the first 10M whilst its easy to drink.

Also its worth noting that in Macca's book he talks about proper deep tissue hydration taking a week and not the couple of days I give. In this time I will be taking extra bananas and Nuun drinks.

 However I still have some Hammy issues in the  same hammy now so it might not all be due to the above.......but if you dont try and fix it then it will happen again !

Edited: 19/12/2011 at 22:19
19/12/2011 at 23:52
Four Calling Birch  wrote (see)

Oscarr - "at age 58"  -  hurrah, I'm not the thread "old git" anymore !! 
(Welcome, btw).

Like Minni, I never warmup prior to mara.     

Yep, a sub 4hr before the grand old age of 60 is the target - only got 14 months left !!  Happy to take over the "old git" mantle !
20/12/2011 at 07:05

I have a bag of Doritos each day for the final three days leading up to the marathon.  Plus I'll add a bit of rock salt to food when cooking.  Never add salt to foods at any point during the year.  I was also advised that a pint a milk is an excellent recovery drink and alot cheaper than sports drinks.  After each run I will have 500ml of milk followed by 500ml of cherry juice (good for anti-inflamatory purposes).  After my longest runs I would also have a sports drink, as well as having one before I leave the house.

After long morning runs I'll also often have a bagel with a couple of slices of turkey and a poached egg. (carbs and protein)  That is only after the longer runs though.

I think that stretching and massages will help you in the long run KR.  I know that through the club I got invited to a talk with a nutritionist last year and it was very eye-opening, especially for the week leading up to the race.  As TR says, it is not all about the last couple of days but the whole of the last week.

20/12/2011 at 08:00
The pace that you are all discussing and all the acronims go way over my head but... the milk recovery drink sounds like something I too can try! Thanks
20/12/2011 at 08:39
All I want for Christmas is my two fifty marathon wrote (see)

I suppose a lot of the problem is the range of times: your 10k currently is 7:41 and MP for 4 hours is 9:10 and MP+20% is 11:00, about 43% slower than your 10k pace. For me the figures work out at 5:55 for 10k pace and MP+20 is 7:47 so 31% slower.

The large range is the reason I feel uncomfortable doing my long runs at slower than 10mpm.  Using your range of 31% slower than 10K gets me to approx 10mpm which is my MP plus 60 secs so sounds right.
20/12/2011 at 10:27
I'm just looking at my pre-marathon race schedule for 2012. I did the Fleet HM this year and really enjoyed it, but next year it's on 25 March which is two weeks later than the RW sub 3:15 schedule suggests. Is that too late? All thoughts welcome. Thanks.
20/12/2011 at 10:39
Oscarr - like PMJ, I feel that sub -4 is feasible for you given your half times.  
Edited: 20/12/2011 at 10:40
20/12/2011 at 10:41
Rob: If you want to fit races in the build up I think you just need to following the spirit of the training plan rather than to the letter and make adjustments accordingly. That's what I'm doing anyway with 2or 3 halfs before Brighton (mid April).
20/12/2011 at 10:48

Thanks AndyV. I probably take the plans too literally at times, but also aware that I need to do my long runs. I guess that means swapping a couple of them around, including doing the 3 hour run planned for week 12 a bit earlier in the schedule. An interesting dilemma given that Fleet HM is also sponsored by ASICS....

KR - i would be interested to hear what races Steve has lined up for you.

20/12/2011 at 11:04

Hi Rob, got a few possible races in the pipeline that I've passed onto Steve, so will see what fits in with the schedule best. Was looking at maybe the Wilmslow Half as I've heard it is a good course on 25th March, but that is only 3 weeks till race day. Gut feeling says that's too close?

Should get my schedule through on Thursday - looking forward to that. I've got a document set up on my computer ready to copy it into - keen would be an understatement!

20/12/2011 at 11:13

Thanks KR. I am doing London and a week behind you, so a HM on 25 March would be four weeks before the race for me. But, like you, I am not sure if that's too close.

Let's see what Steve says...

20/12/2011 at 11:55
Normally I don't see a problem in running a half marathon three weeks before and certainly not 4. I think it varies from individual to individual though. If you are the sort of person who attacks a half as they would a 10k and runs themselves into exhaustion then it's probably a risk doing it 3 weeks before but if you can control it and can go in with a few days taper and on fresher legs then I think it's ok . For KR a sub 1:30 effort with maybe first 3 at marathon pace would not fully exhaust and could be psychologically beneficial but it would depend on what the situation was in March. 4 weeks would almost certainly be ok - a 20 mile race at quicker than marathon pace probably wouldn't.
20/12/2011 at 12:05

Thanks Steve. Fleet HM it is, then.

Would you recommend swapping the Sunday run on weeks 10 and 12? (HM and 22M respectively)? Weeks 11 and12 are the big weeks, hitting 55M, so I wasn't sure whether it would be ok to do the bigger miles slightly earlier in week 10 if I swap it around.

As for 20 mile races, my friend usually does two of them before London. She races them quite hard, which I'm still not convinced is the right way to go....

20/12/2011 at 12:21
re 20s, I think it depends on individuals endurance. A seasoned marathoner with potential to do ultra races is not going to do any damage racing a 20 but someone with a record of struggling in the last 4-5 miles of marathons may find the 20 takes more out in terms of effort than puts back in terms of gain in endurance. re swapping around races - usually better to swap the whole week so you do a partial taper leading to a half marathon rather than do the race on what would have been your heaviest week. I don't think it matters too much if your peak mile week comes in week 10, 11 or 12 as long as it is more miles than you were doing a month before that and you are sensible in the way you approach each week in terms of long runs, races and harder sessions and rest. I'll come back later in evening to clarify if needed. 
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