Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

Introducing First Timer Craig (aka BoDuke)

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18/01/2012 at 09:56

Forgot to mention that I managed to use my Asics voucher in the end - bought a pair of Lahar trail shoes in prep for the Lakeland Trail Marathon in July - really comfy.  My addidas XC shoes would certainly not carry me 26.2 miles so had to invest anyway.  Wanted to try Inov8 shoe (thanks mcs) but they didn't have my size - the Asics shoe has gel cushioning etc. Got the bit between my teeth now for trail prep and Sweatshop have a great deal on this week doing Camelbaks at half price so will go and try one on.

Not tried the banana thing yet!

Tenjiso - hope the strain is easing - give it that extra day before running again just to make sure

Craig - great diet - about 2000 cals which is great

Intervals for me today (4X1mile) - no hills this week as a break and final XC event this Sunday

18/01/2012 at 10:37
Tenjiso wrote (see)
Hi Sam, thanks for the advice. I have got a full range of motion and will start the ice treatment as soon as I finish typing this reply. The feeling is more of a dull ache than any significant pain. Would running slow/recovery pace make matters worse (assuming there is no great discomfort), or would that likely make matters worse?

Hi Tenjiso, hope the strain is healing well. My advice would be to let your body guide you. Start with walking for a good few minutes to raise muscle temperature and then, if you feel able, try a few steps of running. ANY sign of discomfort in that area, just go back to walking and leave it another day or two.  If it feels OK, then still limit to a very short, easy run and carefully stretch out afterwards.

Great idea to do some upper body strength work - keeps you fit, and keeps you focused.

18/01/2012 at 11:04

Hello Craig

I've had a look at your training paces and race result and revised your paces accordingly. Let's see how this feels for the next fortnight. Don't want to push you too hard but certainly don't want to hold you back either! Your race performance puts you closer to 4 than to 4.30 in terms of marathon time but I am not completely discounting your half marathon time from October either (yet!) so you're in the 4-4.20ish range right now.

Slow 10.30-11

Easy 9.45-10.30

Steady 9-9.45

Brisk 8.30-9

Fast For mile reps or longer 7.40-8
For 800m 3.40-3.50 per rep (or 7.20 to 7.40 pace per mile)

Everyone else following the sub 4.30 schedule - please do not feel you have to up your paces in alliance with Craig! The paces you are currently running are on target for a sub 4.30 marathon. If, however, they are feeling too slow overall (not just the 'slow/easy' runs) you might consider upping them a little. Try it for a couple of weeks and if you start to feel more tired/more niggles, then revise again.

Finally, just to warn you Craig that Week 5 might be juggled around abit - we're in the process of planning the training day schedule, so will let you know what we come up with

18/01/2012 at 11:09
Thanks for the help Sam. I'll do my upper body workout today, then tomorrow I'll follow your advice to the letter. Fingers crossed!

In the meantime, I'm still regularly applying a gel ice pack and taking Ibuprofen. It seems to help.
Edited: 18/01/2012 at 11:10
18/01/2012 at 21:47

 Agree Edinburgh is very nice (spend more than half my life there and done a lot of miles on the streets/parks and hills of Edinburgh!)

BoDuke- try and avoid bacon/gammon type of meats and go for lean white meats such as chicken/turkey and when you have  red meat  (twice a week is sufficent) aim for less processed types such as lean mince, lamb, steak etc. Your salt intake can be high and this is not help by processed meats such as bacon!
18/01/2012 at 21:49
Tenjiso wrote (see)
Why do I feel so much more hungry when I don't exercise? It's not going to help my weight loss! :/ Tomorrow I'm going to do weight training (upper body only!) and continue with ice/stretching treatment on the groin strain. Oscarr - the tea towel is in the wash

You have more time to think about food!

hope groin is on the mend.

19/01/2012 at 05:31
Hi peps.

Just a really quick one: been out for today's run already... Got an internal job interview at nine, so been really busy. Not having to go back to hospital with little 'un, some stress removed... But got a meeting tonight... Will get back to you all ASAP...

Get to try my new suit on too!
19/01/2012 at 07:35
ooooh check you out smart boy!  Good luck today
19/01/2012 at 13:52
All the best for the interview, how did it go?
19/01/2012 at 18:16
Hope the interview went well.

This evening I followed Sam's advice and started with a slow walk, then very gradually built up the speed until I reached close to 11:00 minute mile pace for a few minutes. I wasn't sure if I felt some aching, or whether it was just paranoia, but I erred on the side of caution and began slowing back down.

Two miles in 28:50 - my marathon is going to take forever!

I followed the session with some light stretching

If it feels OK tomorrow, I might try a few miles at slow pace. I'm really hoping I can do a ten mile run this weekend, because it would mean that I have only had to shuffle my schedule around a bit (switched with 14 mile run, which I can do next week instead).
19/01/2012 at 19:44
Tenjiso - sounds like you've cracked it - well done
19/01/2012 at 19:48

Tenjiso: well done for playing it safe. You could try the ice again tonight if your wife lets you have the tea towel  Don't panic about the long runs... yes, they are important but if you miss one it's not the end of the world. I often programme in long run-free weeks when I'm coaching clients. Better to let the problem resolve completely than return to full training too early. Think of it like a scab that's healing. If you keep moving it, it'll keep breaking open again. Not saying you MUST rest - if you feel good after today's little run, then you can probably give the easy miles a go tomorrow. But don't feel you HAVE to get that long run in this weekend. A shorter run might be more appropriate. Listen to your body.

'Listen to the whispers... and you won't have to hear the screams'

Craig: Hope the interview went well and hats off for such a stupidly early run this morning! Next week's long run you'll have some company. We are going to do it as a group (sort of... at appropriate paces) on the next training day. More details to follow soon!

19/01/2012 at 22:08
Just got back in and ate a bowl of pasta in one mouthful. Well not quite, but nearly. Wife got me pasta for dinner today, nice one!

Guys, thanks for the best wishes on the job front, I find out tomorrow... Felt ok, but one of those jobs with different responsibilities for the same pay... But wouldn't get the chance to progress otherwise. Things are static or in reverse in the public sector at the moment...

Sam: thanks for the pace updates. Thinking that the weekend sounds interesting, my long run may take a while. Best get used to other finishing, showering and eating before I'm anywhere close the the end.... V early mornings over for the week now.

Ruth: my local deli will be upset to hear that I'm taking note on the processed meat front. Posting on here has been a eye opener, been recording everything since March, but not been public before... My weakness is clearly not sweet things, but hard savoury stuff...

Tenjiso: nice! I'm really pleased fella.

oscarr: how are the shoes? And am I being silly in asking what is the difference between xc and other running? Is it muddy stuff, grass, trails and road all mixed up or something else? Also it is just winter, if so what about summer??? Needing to ask...
19/01/2012 at 22:29

BoD - good luck with the ob t'mrow.  Shoes - wow, what a question!  I'm no expert but here goes from a buyers perspective;

Road running shoes tend to be high on cushioning technology cos of all the impact and are low on tread grip cos they generaly don't get used off-road although most good road running shoes do have a bit of a tread which makes them ok for off-road in the summer when trails etc are dry and they are pretty flat

XC running shoes are very high on tread and ability to withstand lateral movements the like of which you get when running through tank tracks in the mud for instance.  They have large grip points on the soles for going through deep mud, water, slippery grass etc.  They tend to be light on cushioning cos most runs are short (around 5 miles) and you need some rigidity and they need to stay on!!

Trail shoes are sometimes a mixture of the two above but can go all the way to super tread shoes for muddy fell runners who go straight up and down big hills and need loads of grip.

Difference between winter and summer is the wet and mud meaning you need more grip in the winter but as mentioned above you can mix the shoes you need for same terrain in different weathers.

I bought my trail shoes cos my current XC ones are high on tread but low on cushioning and will not get me safely round a summer trail marathon hence the new purchase of shoes which have a lot more cushioning but still with enough grip.  My road shoes I keep for road and summer flat trails.

Probably opened a can of worms with this email but you did ask for my view and as my youngest son will testify, I never refused to answer any of his questions when he was young - they were not always the correct answers but at least i tried !!!!

19/01/2012 at 22:39
SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

Next week's long run you'll have some company. We are going to do it as a group (sort of... at appropriate paces) on the next training day. More details to follow soon!

Sam - need any help??
19/01/2012 at 22:59
Hope the job interview went well BoD - it's good you find out so quickly, fingers crossed for you.
Hmm, local Deli - nom nom!
20/01/2012 at 05:36

BoD - hope the interview went well! Well done on your ealry run!

Been a bad week for me, my son has been in hospital and my middle daughter is unwell (more long term) so not been able to get out there since Monday! Hopefully a couple of miles today and try a long run early tomorow! Diet has been awful, really need to get a grip!

20/01/2012 at 09:40
Sam - when you put it like that, maybe I'd better cut the long run for this week. Whether or not I run ten miles won't really affect my ability to run 14 miles next week - but the injury certainly would. It feels okay this morning, so I may try a few very easy miles later today.

Unfortunately I'm getting older so scabs take longer to heal :/

Oscarr - that's a very useful description of the shoes. Do they also have neutral/stability trail/XC shoes like the road shoes? From your description, I could do with a reasonable pair of trail shoes for a route that starts and ends on road (about 3 miles), then goes along tracks/bridal path and across some fields (3 to 10 miles).
20/01/2012 at 10:13

Fingers crossed for you today BoD!

Tenjiso, yes absolutely - you've got the idea

Oscarr - yep like your descriptions. But worth pointing out that some of the new minimalist shoes also have trail/xc versions which don't have cushioning but do have lots of grip and a very low to the ground profile.

Been swimming today - 60 lengths. I was tempted to run today after a couple of heavy coaching days but I'll do anyting to get out of swimming so decided to stick with my schedule!

20/01/2012 at 10:31

Good luck with the job Craig.  And wowsers that's a few early runs this week - good work!

Sam: I have a question if that's ok?  I'm following the RW sub 5:00 plan and tomorrow it says I'm meant to do a '3M hill session or circuit', but I'm not sure what that might consist of.  I'm planning to do it at the gym for once on the treadmill for a bit of a softer surface as I've run on road for the last 3 weeks, but not sure what a hill session might consist of.  Any pointers?  Oh and just started reading your Marathon from start to finish book - very interesting read!

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