Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

Introducing First Timer Craig (aka BoDuke)

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26/01/2012 at 08:58

Morning all. Glad the run went OK BoD - sounds like you are indeed back in the game - excellent! Don't give 'showing yourself up' on Saturday another moment's wasted brainpower! Like everyone says, it's just a training run, but hopefully one where you have someone motivating you, giving you helpful feedback and perhaps even chucking you the odd jelly baby It's not a competition.

And great news Rachel is coming to Paris with you! Nothing beats having your loved ones there to support you at a marathon. My mum lives at the 1 mile marker on the London Mara course, so whether me or Jeff are running it, the other one is always standing in the front garden cheering with a big mug of coffee and a croissant Then they have to lug themselves up from Blackheath to the finish to pick up the pieces Only joking!

What's this weather like today? My phone said it was going to be a big sun all day today. God knows where it thinks I am. Relentless drizzle as far as I can see. As it was last night when I took my group's Wednesday night fartlek session. I was meant to be resting as have a sore hip but Jeff (who was meant to be in charge) was stuck on the M25 so I had to grin and bear it. It certainly doesn't feel any worse for it this morning but still looking forward to seeing the osteopath tomorrow. I have a race booked for Sunday but I won't do it unless I know I can run normally - I'm so sensible these days! I think after you spend years giving people 'good advice' about not running through pain/niggles, you begin to heed it yourself. In the past, I'd have felt that the race as the Main Thing and whatever happened after was less important. Nowadays my running aspirations are more lifelong. Hmmm, think I feel a column coming on.

26/01/2012 at 09:07
Sam - i think you've just written it !!!
26/01/2012 at 09:57
Sam - I'm trying to change my mindset from focussing on one race and the short-term. I recently posted a question on RW about setting a "five year plan" and had some useful responses to get me thinking.

Now I'm going to have my dream goal, which is also welllllllll beyond my current capabilities (Good for Age, 3:15 marathon - don't laugh). I'm going to break it down into stages of what I want to achieve each year. This year is 4:20 to 4:30, next year sub 4:00 and so on (haven't decided exact time-scale yet, but I'm still loosely thinking of a five year plan - realistically probably longer. I'll start on improving speed to get to sub-4 after recovering from this years marathon (probably concentrate on 10k, then HM).

I've looked at the training required to get to sub 3:15. The amount of mileage isn't too daunting, but the speed scares the bejeezers out of me

Anyway, being fifty I may never make my dream goal, but I should get a lot fitter finding out if I can do it. It should keep me concentrating on improving long after my marathon has passed and break me out of a plateau of my own making. If all else fails, maybe I'll make good for age at 60, which is "only" 3:30

If you wouldn't mind, you can write your column about how I can write my plan to achieve all of this. Better still make it a book and send me a complimentary copy
26/01/2012 at 10:05

Morning all - I too am more relaxed than I was 10 years ago about achieving my goals "today"! "One day" will do for me nowadays - like you say Tenjiso - if you stick at it ...

I just figure that as long as you train progressively, now matter how small the baby steps you use to progress - you must be continually getting fitter therefore faster.  And thereby one step closer to your goal than you were yesterday.

Good luck with your race Sam - what is it? 

That's me entered in my monthly races until June - just have to be patient and wait for entries to open for the rest - boooo - hate ... waiting ... LOL

26/01/2012 at 11:06

Sleepy - which ones have you entered?

Tenjiso - i am 58 and been running for longer than i care to remember but am still picking up tips on how to improve overall fitness etc.  One thing i have started to do more of nowadays is to analyse previous races to see if i can identify a trend that i need to do something about - its fantastic when you work on it and it pays off.  Good luck with the 5 year plan !!

26/01/2012 at 11:13
Thanks Oscarr. The trend I have noticed with my own training is that I repeat the same patterns and have a mega-plateau as a result. For ages I have had in my mind that the best I could ever hope for would be a sub-4:00 marathon - but it's a completely artificial limit I have placed on myself. That's why I really want to shift my perspective.
26/01/2012 at 12:48
Tenjiso - I love your wild optimism and i hope you get your rewards, good luck.  Reach for the stars and who knows where you will end up!
26/01/2012 at 12:51

Hey oscarr - my first half of the year involves: parkruns (February) Fleet Half (March); parkruns galore (April); Normanby Hall Ladies 5k (May); Castle Howard Trail 10k (June).  Am planning on entering the Lakeland Trail Half tonight - just need to check whether Ben wants to do it too and I've just discovered the entry form and the early bird offer that ends at the end of January. Also planning on the York 10k and the Belper 30k in August then for the finale - as you know - Robin Hood in September.  I might sneak a couple more halves and 10ks in for training if I can find any local ones.

Tenjiso - my weakness is that I chop and change programmes all the time - for example - I am currently doing a 12 week half programme to be followed by an 12 week 10k then by 12/13 weeks of a 16 week marathon plan - I love trying new sessions - I'm not sure if that sort of process would help you break your "pattern" or not but it stops me getting bored! I usually  progress my training based on my HR but now can't wait to get a foot pod to go with the HR monitor I already have  - will be interesting how those HR's correspond to pace outside.  I usually get freaked out by the paces I race at - I don't train anywhere near them! Might have to close that gap a little.

26/01/2012 at 13:05
Sleepy - looks like a good set of races and you will certainly have planty of speed in your legs by Nottingham.  I did it a few years ago - its a great first half but the second half is a little less attractive especially the loop around the rowing lake (always windy) but overall a good event.
26/01/2012 at 13:14

18 miles done this week.............just packing up the desk as moving out tomorrow and Saturday......crazy.

I reckon as you get older you get more sensible about injury and perhaps more realistic about goals, though Tenj I reckon you are optomistic but prove me wrong. Speed causes me injury, the limitations of my legs prevents me doing a 3.15 a sub four would be nice this year......thats my goal..............I am training slower this year and hopefully it will lead to a faster time in the races to come.

Nice piccies guys dangerous where you are standing though!!! Hope they did a risk assesment???

26/01/2012 at 19:23

Sam: I turned really nice up here, surprisingly... Not that I got to see it. Can I bring some Gummy Bears? I can eat those by the fist full. I know what you mean about you giving advice when it's your job and then not listening to it yourself... Oh do I know about that one... I'm also really pleased shes coming, wouldn't have been the same otherwise.  Coffee and croissant, now that is very tempting... Pre-marathon breakfast??? Best do more running and practice loading up then . Good luck with the ostiopath and hopefully your ready to race and don't lose any of us chicks.  Rosie might not stop and run home...

Tenjiso: Haven't thought about looking that far ahead yet. I'm loving your optermisum and drive and thave to write this down... Been considering the next year and might have to go longer into the future.  Wanted a sub 2:00 in October half, but *touch wood* break this in next one in Marxh. So thinking about what target after Paris... Times, distance or both... Did see that Wall run on the web, like the idea of camping and running. Maybe two years to that kind of thing... 

SB/oscarr: You guys know of any interesting races around my way (East Anglia/East Midlands) that are any good for the summer? Might have to plan a bit better, winter is fine 'cos I started doing this: Frostbite League with the club and it's free!!!! Bonus.

mcs: Good work, feels strange to have had a day off... Don't like it... ... Not sure about the risk assessment, but was really amusing... Cold and in the middle one of the busiest shoping streets in the world the week before Christmas in lycra... A year ago I would have bet my house on that not happening...

26/01/2012 at 19:24



Breakfast    Calories    Carbs    Fat    Protein
Belvita - Crunchy Oats Breakfast Biscuit, 1 container (4 biscuits ea.)    228    34    8    4   
Sainsbury's - Fresh Milk, Semi Skimmed, 1 glass 200 ml    98    10    3    7   
Baked Potato - Chili & Cheese, 1 potato    510    63    20    22   
Fizzy Vimto - Diet Drink , 330 ml    7    0    0    0   
M & S - Count on Us... - Sea Salt & Malt Vinegar Crisps, 2 packet    170    37    1    3   
Marks & Spencers - Gastropub Cloudy Lemonade, 500 ml    25    1    0    0   
Marks and Spencer - Free Range Ham and Cheese Sandwich, 1 pack    480    41    21    29   
Sainsbury's - Banana, 1 banana    95    23    0    1   
Costa Coffee - Choc Chunk Biscuits, 66.67 g    329    41    17    3   
Waitrose - the Squashed Fruit Bar, 2 bar    198    42    2    3

26/01/2012 at 19:25


Breakfast    Calories    Carbs    Fat    Protein
Sainsbury's Express Porridge - Golden Syrup Flavour, with 180ml Semi Skimmed Milk    225    39    5    10   
Philadelphia - Herb & Garlic Cream Cheese Low Fat 95% Fat Free, 90 g   120    6    3    12   
Waitrose - Hand Carved Roast Hereford Beef, 112.5 g    169    0    5    30   
Waitrose - Deliciously Low Fat Yogurt Madagascan Vanilla, 1 pot    144    28    1    6   
Waitrose - White Muffin, 3 Muffin    522    79    13    22   
Waitrose - Skinless Chicken Breast, 1.5 portion    257    0    0    0   
Waitrose Cooks' Ingredients - Le Puy Lentils, 125 g    384    62    2    31   
Raw - Carrot, 1 Large    30    7    0    1   
Sainsbury's - Smoked Dutch Back Bacon Rashers, 3 rasher    150    0    16    17   
Leeks - (bulb and lower leaf-portion), cooked, boiled, drained, without salt, 1.5 leek    58    14    0    2   
Waitrose - the Squashed Fruit Bar, 1 bar    99    21    1    1   

Off to eat poached chicken and lentils, got in the French mood without wine...


26/01/2012 at 20:16

BoD - not done any races in your part of the world but I use the RW Events website to research races (always read the reviews to get a guide to how suitable they are).  In your shoes i would be tempted to put all my thoughts and effort into Paris, see how that goes then plan ahead after that.  Here we go with not doing what you advise others cos i've already got a plan togehter for the rest of the year after my spring marathon but i've been running for longer and this is your first one and you have a special opportunity with all the Asics training etc to make Paris the experience of a lifetime.

You mentioned The Wall event and I looked at that ealier this year - I may start doing daft things like that but want to see the best time i can do in a straight marathon first and i don't know how long that will take.

26/01/2012 at 20:40

Oooh, lots of interesting debate today! I think it's great to have long-term plans and so what if some of them are a bit less attainable than others. I also think it's really important to try not to place limitations on what you might achieve...

I think I may be quoting Jonathan Livingstone Seagull when I say 'Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they are yours.'

I remember thinking I'd 'NEVER' break 1.40 for a half. And then I did. Then I'd never break 1.35... and I did. Still not cracked the sub 1.30 yet though (1.31 grrr) Ditto with sub 3.30 marathons. Once you get rid of those self--imposed limits, the world's your osyter.

And one of the best ways to try to reach new targets is to change your approach (BoD, not you... try this approach first, see how it goes, then maybe ring the changes!) But if you're stuck on a plateau, like Tenjiso says, you need to try a new approach. And incidentally Ten, I've trained lots of people to run sub 3.30s and 3.15s on a way smaller mileage than is often recommended. I'm a bit of a quality not quantity kinda coach  . Have also run numerous sub 3.30s myself on around 35-40 mpw.

I will be posting Craig's training for next week AFTER the training day this week folks. Want to take into account how he's feeling and how it's gone before I commit anything to paper. Will aim to do this on Sunday.

26/01/2012 at 21:07

Ooooh Sam, love this kind of debate - was just about to turn the tele on but this is a lot more fun!

Arguing your limitations is a valid point - it's like the golfer that stands on the tee and says to his buddies "i always put my tee shot in the water on this hole" and guess what happens to his tee shot?  Reading Charlie Spedding's book (From last to first) last year was enlightening in that he persevered and tried different techniques and training locations and distances with the absloute belief that one day he could reach the top and in his own way he did just that - he actualy became famous as a marathon runner after only a couple of races after a long career at shorter events and all this in the amateur era.

However, does there not have to be a limit on the expectation to avoid banging the head against the brick wall ??  For example, I'm 58 and I have to accept that i can't do the times i did 15 years ago cos it's not biologically possible is it?  What I can do is do the best my body can do and because i didn't do any marathons until i was 54 yrs old i'm really in the "now" for it so don't really know how fast i can do it in but can work out from old half times what is simply way beyond me.

Am i putting too much thought into this? Is there a challenge out there that with a change in mindset i can achieve? How much will this body take ? Did I get the best out of it 15 years ago ? Who knows???

Current mindset is that I reckon from past experiences that i've trained a lot but badly and that's why i havve underperformed at marahton so far - this time with SMARTER training in know i can get under 4hr - if i do can i get a Boston qual of under 3.55?  Targets, dreams, targets, dreams ????

Just food for thought and some light evening entertainment - don't feel oblidged to reply anyone !!

Off to pick the wife up.

26/01/2012 at 21:43

If you can dream it you can achieve it oscarr. I don't think you're daft enough to try to set yourself unrealistic goals but there's definitely no harm in keeping an overall goal (Boston) to work towards - besides if you don't try you'll never know will you?

Entering the Lakeland half - just me - Ben'll be dog sitting that day.  We'll plan to try and give you a shout once we work out where your route goes.  Will send you my mobile number (to your inbox) nearer the time so we can try and meet up beforehand if you like.

Happy Friday everybody (for tomorrow).  Rest day in my world! 

p.s Craig - not seeing all that much fruit or veg in your diet - Ruth - get him get him get him

26/01/2012 at 22:18
Why oh why didn't my phone tell me this was going on??? Oh, I was trying to buy a bike 'cos we're moving to a new office with inadequate parking and I'm probably going to have to get the train. I'm not biking 42 miles a day to work... Ever.

oscarr: don't worry fella, Paris seems to have taken over my life... But keeping in mind the potential for that 'post event blues' and moving on when it's done. Relishing every second... Amazingly the forum is my Facebook addiction replacement... Boston??? Nice.. *nods sagely*.

Sam: I'm sticking with the advice. Got no idea what my limits are and so greatful to have the guidence to find out and start the process. Know one thing, I'm not going to go 'well that's running done then'...

SB: :-0 there has to be three fruit bars and at least one (pealed) banana...

Off to bed. Going to Luton in the morning after me run for a 'Regional Quality Assurance Benchmarking' meeting. I must learn management speak... I must learn management speak... So glad I'm running before that one
26/01/2012 at 22:31

LOL - that sounds fun! NOT!

Fresh fruit doesn't include that which is smothered in sugar (to hold the bar together) tut tut tut   (unless you mean those fruit puree things - not sure how good they are - can't quite get my head around oblong fruit!). It's that's like saying jam is fruit (that'd be nice eh).  Did you know that the Japanese RDA is 17 portions (small handful) a day - makes our 5 a day guidance look a bit pathetic eh? I reckon from the above you're on about 1.5 -  2 a day average (3 possibly 4 portions divided by 2).  Not telling you off - just trying to help ... Can't improve if you don't know what needs improving.

Glad you're still peeling your bananas - I will know to start worrying when you don't!

Meant to say also - races - I check RW events first too - but also have a sneaky peek at your local clubs website - they usually have a results page so you can check out local races listed there which might not appear elsewhere.

26/01/2012 at 23:24

Wow - just been catching up on this debate! Fascinating.

I'm still on pretty short term goals as I have only been running a few years. If/when I manage Paris I will have completed 3 marathons in my first 3 years running.

Short term will look at trying to get close to a sub 50 10k.... then a few more racesin the summer - probably x country. I tend to back off xc as am poor at hills and get frightened I won't finish... maybe I should just go for it and see what happens!

Bo - I know what you mean about feeling like a fraud... I don't want to let anyone down. You are running faster than me so I will be the little fat plodder at the back on my own on Saturday. If there are dogs then you will have to run back to get me as I won't be able to move!

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