Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

Re : nutrition in marathon- I felt that after about 16 miles, I couldn't face any more sickly sweet gels- best solution?- different types of things to eat- I use a combination of chocolate flavours ( there used to be chocolate gels, but can't find them now, so use FRIJJ milk), cola - clif shot blocks, and watered- down lucozade sport towards the end ( full strength lucozade sport is too much), when your guts seem to get too "tired" to manage anything very solid. I carry some NUUN or ZERO tablets for electrolyte replacments, and add these to the watered down lucozade sport- all this chemistry on the move also means you have to walk through the drinks stations, pouring stuf to/ from various bottles, which is a good walk break, and avoids the risks of breaking an ankle slipping on discarded drinks bottles.

Post long-run, the best recovery food in the world is FRIJJ chocolate milk!

my post long run food is bacon and egg on toasted muffin - carb replenishment and lots of protein for muscle re-build and it tastes fantastic - i start dreaming about it about 2/3rds the way through the run !!

Good luck Craig. I'm doing my first full mara this April (in my home town of Worcester, so not as glam as Paris!) Will be interested to track another newby's progress. I'll admit that at this stage I find the thought of 26.2 a little daunting- Hope all your training goes well

Hi folks!!!! Back from the hospital... Thank *{^^! Back for the next two Tuesdays and that should be that then. Toes, fingers and everything crossed. Everything went fine (as it could do) and had a very special couple of hours with us falling asleep together in the hospitals soft play area... Did get to catch up on my reading though...

Been looking at the sports psychology section of Noakes. Finding it very interesting (career change maybe...) and wondered if any one had looked at/considered the psychology of training/racing? Just to lay my cards on the table, I have studied and practice applied psychology at work... So freakishly hope to discuss this. I understand that we will also be meeting a sports psychologist on this programme, quality.

Personally, I'm not that competative in my personality (or overtly). So thinking maybe tapping into that might push me (or someone else reading this) a bit faster/further on race days (got three sheduled to practice)...

Thanks Nicola: if we train right, will be able to make it! 26.2 is (I think) a psychological barrier that scares us first times. But it the same as the first 15 minutes running /30 minutes/5k/10k/half. Arbitrary distance that has taken on a massive cultural significance... One to be tested against, beaten and reflected on as a 'life achivement' and done again, never to be considered again or further... Sorry if a bit philosophical, but tired, wine and thinking... Good luck with your training: Worcester is lush! Also hope you enjoy the thread!

If I've lost track of the conversation, sorry folks... But good to have a bacon bap with a black coffee after a run... Easier than trying to eat while doing breakfast for an 18 month old...

Craig - glad everything went well

I think you are right that the marathon is a massive psychological barrier, seems very scary. But then that is what makes achieving one so great.

Hi Craig

Many congratulations on your selection! My name is Ruth, the Pro Team Dietitian. I am really looking forward to following your journey to Paris. Very impressed with your weight loss, giving up smoking and starting to run - 2011 was a great year for you and I am sure 2012 will be even better.

Lots of discussions on gels, SIS do the isotonic gel (no water needed) but also High Five called isogel (fairly new). I would say not to worry too much about gels/sports drinks/jelly babies until runs over 80-90mins. As a rule it is recommended to take a gel every 30mins (in marathon) BUT this is only a recommended guideline which you work from when new to running.

Glad your son appears to be doing well (I am also a parent).

I will only be on your thread a couple of times per week  but I will do my very  best to answer all questions! I will also see you at the end of the month at your next training day.

Yeyy Craig - glad all is well.  As it happens I've just bought a book:

Brain Training for Runners: A Revolutionary New Training System to Improve Endurance, Speed, Health, and Results by Matt Fitzgerald (Paperback - 4 Sep 2007)

It's been sneaked up my reading queue to next one after I finish current novel.  I'm fascinated by sports psych too - is the Noakes book you refer to his Lore of Running?  Not read it - recommend it? I prefer not to run with my mp3 as I get sore ears from ear buds so I like to play mind games to keep myself entertained. 

My favourite method for dealing with the boredom of the later miles is distraction.  In my one and only mara I got bored at about 22 miles and tried Paula's counting distraction.  I worked on counting double paces and every 100th time my right foot hit the floor I had a wee sip of water from the bottle I was carrying.  It's amazing how much you have to focus to make it 100 without drifting off and losing count. By mile 24 I'd forgotten I was bored and was then on a mission to get to the finish...   I start counting now whenever I start feeling like I can't be bothered or like heading for home. I also have a little mantra for when a race starts to feel too hard but I'm not sharing that - it's too personal - needless to say I reckon everyone should have three words that they can repeat to themselves to keep them going.

Craig, I'm glad things has gone OK, I hope it continues.  I have never given physcology I thought, I am very (or maybe very very) competitive so getting that extra ounce out is quite easy.  But a couple of things help me; if it hurts I smile for two reasons 1. it hurts less 2. Joan Rivers said she will only take up running when she sees a runner smiling (you never know) and; my daughter is a gymnast and I have seen her training where she is in so much pain during stretches she is crying but never quits so I use the mantra "she can, I can".  With all that said, I have never set a PB where I didn't feel like stopping.

Good to hear all gone well. Time to search out a bacon buttie!! All this talk of food.... Gales kept me awake last night. Running in lunch break as light and can see!!!

Craig, a bit spooky you mention Noakes...

I'm still playing catch-up with marathon talk podcasts and only this week listened to an interview they did with Noakes about his central governor theory. It's not something I'm particularly interested in, but it was still very interesting and thought provoking. Also a bit controversial, because he basically said that people who finish second in a race basically choose to do so.

I can't post links on this forum, so Go to the following location (click on Direct Download to get the MP3 file):

www.marathontalk.com/podcast/episode_47_prof_tim_noakes.php

I recommend the marathon talk podcasts for passing the time during the long runs. I'm almost exactly a year behind with my listening

Hi Craig

Really glad things went OK and you've managed to keep your eye on the ball with all this other stuff going on, well done.

Pace spot on for the intervals, too!

Re. psychology of racing/competition. Sure I won't get slapped for plugging the Feb issue of RW  where I just wrote this month's Murphy's Lore column about just that subject...

Hi Craig, glad the crossed fingers worked for you and your little one. Bacon bap & black coffee sounds interesting for a post run snack . I would be interested in the psycological side of things too as the mental element of going 26.2 miles plays a big part. When all you've got is the road ahead & 3/4/5 hours running, there's a lot of thinking time to cope with!

Thanks for the support guys. Been a mental few days. Back to work tomorrow so can deal with other stresses instead...

Mathschick: Totally agree with you, bigger the challenge the greater the reward!

Ruth: Hello and thanks. Think you may get asked a load of questions on gels etc. Just had a For Goodness Shakes recovery drink... On offer somewhere so picked a couple up. 315 kcals though!!! put weight on over Christmas and need to get it off again... See you at the end of the month.

Sleepy: Yea, it's 919 pages of hard science... Being the total geek that I am, love the detail. But think you have to be into that really, not a front to back read, more of a reference book. Let me know that the brain training book is like. Can't run with music or anything else either. I start planning stuff out at work or home or try to visualise finishing. Have just tried emptying my head too, but thats quite hard.

Tenjiso: I've only just got into that it's now my listening in the car on the commute to work thing!!! V spooky. Thanks for the link, I'll put it on my phone shortly. Have to agree with you that it's controversial and would be very difficult to verify or otherwise. Could be a very interesting experiment there in looking at people's self-talk in races and training.

Sam: Thanks, being v careful with my pacing. Before I did this I was doing a lot of charging about too quick, so good to have the motivation to put the breaks on and then speed up when advised. Funny that this came up, I picked a copy of RW up today on a shopping trip and there it was: v good by the way. Do have a question: did the scheduled run today and just looked at my pacing and heart rate... v strange but my heart rate was quicker in the warm up mile (ave 11:30 pace) than the two miles at 9:00... speeded up and heart rate dropped... v confused about that one.

Colin: Thanks mate. Can't go wrong with bacon... Yummy, with loads of HP sauce in a wholemeal bap... Hungry now, again. Was thinking about the distance on the drive to work: 21 miles on a major motorway and then another 5 miles on top of that... puts it into prospective.

Hello all

Craig - pleased it went well for your little one! Hope back to work goes well too!

I have an interest in sports psychology (I work as a Uni lecturer in Health Psychology) and do some work with the sports scientists, fascinating topic!

Hi Craig

yes that is weird about your heart rate. I suppose it's just a reminder that heart rate is always nothing more than a 'snapshot' of where you are that moment. It might have been that it took a while to get in the swing at first (could have been if you were a bit stressed/wired/caffeined up) but then things steadied out. But keep an eye on it - see if it's just a one-off or a pattern.

Sorry Lee... Meant to reply to you too... It was the conversation in London that we had that made me think about psychology... Quite clear that you are competative and very sporty, also very driven. made me think about motivations and what goes through people's heads as they train and race. Like the reasons to smile too! Good to see that your daughter is just as motivated in her gymnastics.

Hi MWW: that's quality! Do you go for a CBT type work or prefer something else? Got to admit to being a bit jealous... Was looking at the BPS website for conversion courses, but all appear to be full time or not distance learning (the OU have closed their one)... Just speculating at the moment... they can be a nightmare with accreditation...

Thanks Sam,

Going to be back to running in the morning again before work again now, so will make sure I keep an eye on it. Been stressd and drinking a lot of Pepsi Max...

Oh, while I was in hospital entered the GNR ballot... Impulse entry... Woops...

Hi Craig,

well done at making the 6. Glad to hear all going well so far.Don't forget the injury prevention stuff the core exercises and stretching we mentioned at bootcamp.

For recovery on your long runs I've found a protein shake after allows me to continue with all the family duties rather than lye on the sofa!

good luck

Craig - My main areas of work are chronic condition management, including some CBT type stuff, and lifestle behaviour change including some motivational theories. What area of psych are you working in?

Thanks Sarah, been doing the Thomas stretch and bridges as shown. Not letting my wife do the pushing thing though, she really hurt me and was smiling... Hummm... Do like protien shakes (chocolate ones in particular)...

MWW: sounds good... Rewarding? I'm in probation, so lots of applied psych going on and applying forensic psych assessments to risk management plans. Does make the cross over an issue though. Got assessment skills and plenty of group work experiance too. Mostly use combination of CBT, cycle of change, motivational interviewing and disistance theory. Took a couple of psych modules in my first degree and also did some stuff with the OU before my training.