Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Emma

Introducing the fifth and final member of our ASICS Target 26.2 team - Emma (aka EmmaC) Emma will be mentored by Sam Murphy on this thread ...

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01/01/2012 at 07:54

Emma- well done on your 10.1!

Happy new year everyone

01/01/2012 at 10:37

Happy New Year Everyone.

MWW - It was sooooooo slow and felt so difficult!

I was going to pop out for a cheeky trot around the block but my leggies are a bit tired - think a rest would do me more good!

01/01/2012 at 12:03

Morning and Happy New Year

I too plan my long runs to allow for toilet stops although mine mostly involve hedges rather than garden centres or Macdonalds!  Like MWW I use Immodium before races and mostly have been ok plus the thought of the Portaloo I encountered around 20 miles in Paris in 2009 helps too

01/01/2012 at 12:35
Another vote for immodium- I always use it for marathons, and carry a couple of spare "instants" tablets with me- probably not a good idea to use it too regularly, so need to find a different approach for training runs ( no pun intended)- do you think it's a dietary thing?- I reckon that the caffeine gels were a probelm for me- I've stopped using them, and things seem better.
01/01/2012 at 12:38
Happy New Year everyone
01/01/2012 at 16:42

A question for Sam.

I noticed that for Emma's long run next week she has 10 miles in 100 minutes which isn't that much slower than marathon pace for a 4.15 finish.  I've always been told that long slow runs ought to be at least MP+ 60 seconds if not more.  Is Emma's quicker because she is faster over short distances or do I need to reevaluate my idea of an 'easy' pace?

mcs
01/01/2012 at 19:39
Debenhams online sale great for crockery Emma bought some last weds delivered Friday.
Eldest daughter and hubby back from skiing trip to Austria what cracking pictures.
Ten minute miles is a slow long run pace for a four fifteen finish isn't it? USB......
01/01/2012 at 19:56
Exact pace for a 4:L15 finish is 9:44 min miling (engraved on my heart ).  That is why I was wondering about the pace suggested.
01/01/2012 at 20:33

USB - I'm worried about the pace suggested at the moment as I really found it tough going yesterday!

I am running with a friend and she is keen to try to stick to the pace but we will take headphones in case we end up running at differing paces. Based on this we might review our future long runs. I managed up to 16 miles at 10 min miles in training last year but ran along the downs link which is flat and with no traffic and was with a different running partner.

I am not sure that I can managed 9:44 for 26.2 miles but Sam is so I am going to believe in the training annd give it my best shot! Already I have felt that the running it different, with much more purpose as opposed to the 'more of the same' plodding miles that I was guilty of last year.

The faster sections in runs really focus the mind and I find them more interesting so hope that it will keep my motivation up. Think tomorrow is 5 miles steady - 9.30-9.45 pace.

02/01/2012 at 12:49

If 9:44 is planned marathon pace, it seems a bit fast to be doing the LSR at 10 min pace. Is that the pace suggested for all the long runs? I'm doing my long runs by HR at the moment, and they're much slower than that (I'm aimng for  4:00-4:15).

Do the runs slow down as distance increases?

02/01/2012 at 17:53

Found the run so tough today - we set out to do 5 miles at steady pace (9:30-9:45 min miles) but I couldn't manage it at all. My lovely chum appologised for slowing me down - truth is I think I was slowing her down!

I'm a bit worried about the long runs based on this - last year the runs I did at 10 min miles were horrendous (I wasn't allowed to stop at all) and I endured them. But the runs that my chum and I did at a conversational pace were really lovely even though we were shattered. So I think we will aim to run at 10 min miles and see how we go!

Tricia - seeing as the short run today I couldn't even get to marathon pace I think it is likely that the pace will slow as the distances increase!

02/01/2012 at 18:14
Ultra Sparkly Bridget wrote (see)

A question for Sam.

I noticed that for Emma's long run next week she has 10 miles in 100 minutes which isn't that much slower than marathon pace for a 4.15 finish.  I've always been told that long slow runs ought to be at least MP+ 60 seconds if not more.  Is Emma's quicker because she is faster over short distances or do I need to reevaluate my idea of an 'easy' pace?

tricialitt wrote (see)

If 9:44 is planned marathon pace, it seems a bit fast to be doing the LSR at 10 min pace. Is that the pace suggested for all the long runs? I'm doing my long runs by HR at the moment, and they're much slower than that (I'm aimng for  4:00-4:15).

Do the runs slow down as distance increases?


Hi everyone... lots of discussion about long run pace here so I'll try to clarify.

The 'long slow run' pace is 10.45-11 minutes per mile and runs at this pace are described on the schedule as 'slow'.

Long runs described as 'easy' are slightly quicker, 10-10.30 minutes per mile.

I'm quite a believer in doing some long runs (or bouts of long runs) at a faster than LSR pace - not so much for a first timer just trying to get round but for those looking to achieve a new PB. So the schedule varies the long run pace from LSR to Easy (and later on to some specific MP, too)

So the answer to tricialitt's question is no, the pace doesn't necessarily get slower as the runs get longer, though I normally suggest the LSR pace when I significantly up the length of the run (eg. by 2 miles).

Another factor is the surface of the run. I generally recommend doing LSR pace runs off road so you don't 'pace watch' as much. Just run slow and enjoy it! And that brings me to USBs point about Emma's long run -  next week she has 10 miles in 100 minutes which isn't that much slower than marathon pace for a 4.15 finish.  I should perhaps have put 100-105 minutes to stick more closely to the pace range I have outlined for 'easy' runs ie. 10-10.30.  And for the 'easy' pace long runs, I recommend a more level, firm surface so you can monitor pace more easily. (This surface variation is also good for strength, stability and injury resistance.)

No one aiming for the same kind of time as Emma should worry if they are at the slower end of the ranges suggested. If you feel the pace suggested for the 'easy' runs is too fast, you could try doing a 'slow start, faster finish' long run, in which you do the first half at the LSR pace and the second half at the easy pace. That goes for you too, Emma!

I hope that helps. Will check back tomorrow morning to see if I need to clarify further!

02/01/2012 at 18:25
Thanks Sam.  I think I'm someone who prefers the mixed approach, partly because although it is not excessively hilly round here the early part of all my long runs involves a certain amount of climbing and overall my routes are undulating at best.  The only way I get round this from time to time is by driving a few miles away to flatter places!
02/01/2012 at 18:31

USB - Totally understand. I think it's important to heed the session 'descriptor', ie. easy, steady, brisk or whatever, in addition to the pace guidelines. The pace guidelines don't hold true if you're running up and down hills or over boggy terrain for exmaple, but as long as it still feels 'steady' or 'brisk' then that's absolutely fine. We are not machines!

mcs
03/01/2012 at 06:56
Perfect and very clear particularly good the point on varying surfaces for long runs, I have tended to do the long runs over the last couple of years on the same surface. Going to vary things in future.
YOU can do it Emma or you will be able to once the training is done, keep at it.
Time for work.
03/01/2012 at 07:49
Don't panic Emma - it's just one run!  Remember that you're gonna get fitter as you go along so try not to self sabotage yourself by  telling yourself you're too slow.  Slower can be good if you need your body to produce more capillaries, mitochondria and aerobic enzymes - and it will - if you let it. (These are the bits and bobs which allow your body to transport oxygen and make you energy efficient). That's why you're training after all - to get your body ready. It's not ready right now at the moment - but then it doesn't need to be as Paris is not until April.  Trust Sam - she'll look after you. 
03/01/2012 at 10:13

Emma - SB is so right, it's only one run and believe me we all have bad days now and again - even bad races as well - and you just have to get philosophical and move on.  Remember also that you were ill last week so maybe it was the after effects creeping up on you.  Plus Christmas in a young family household is a stressful as well as enjoyable time and that can have an effect as well.   Don't change everything based on one short run.

So, keep your spirits up and look forwards - we're all rooting for you!

03/01/2012 at 10:19

Thank you so much for all the positivity everyone - it means an awful lot to me!

I will do it - or at least do my absolute best!

Hope the rain goes before my run tonight - planning on one mile warm up, 3 miles at 1/2 marathon pace a mile jog recovery and a mile cool down. Rain, rain go away ....

03/01/2012 at 10:50

Some great points made above.

Training is the method we use of getting from A (starting point) to B (goal/destination). You are not expected to already be at B at the outset, otherwise there'd be no need for the training 'journey'! The fact that you've completed the full week (and a few extra miles, methinks) in adverse circumstances shows commitment and tenacity.

Yes, me too hoping that the rain and gale force winds abate. the forecast says it should be drier later...

mcs
03/01/2012 at 14:16

Running home tonight four miles minimum at 5pm so will be out in the wind and rain with you Emma in spirit. Check out page 91 to see me and my daughter in the Feb RW mag and page 53 being quoted at the Birmingham boot camp day.......just like to say that I did make some comments about Steve and Sam too but they have been edited!!!

To quote my new desk calendar(sorry if they bore you, I wont mention them every day promise!)

No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.

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