Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Rosie

Thanks FH. Great that you're going for the same target. Look forward to seeing you on here.

 And nice website! Looks like you have a busy year coming up. Excellent charities you're supporting there too. Very impressed

Rosie, well done! It'll be a fantastic experience... look forward to following your progress.

Will be in Edinburgh for Great Winter Run in January... you running that?

Simon Pryde wrote (see)

Rosie, well done! It'll be a fantastic experience... look forward to following your progress.

Will be in Edinburgh for Great Winter Run in January... you running that?

John Ford 5 wrote (see)

Rosie well done for getting that place which doesn't surprise me, your running said a lot but the hospital story said a lot more and will have made most of us chuckle.  Great outfit for a fancy dress run though technically probably far from comfortable.  Wishing you all the best over the next few months of training and interested how they get you off that plateau.  I think I am definitely in the same place but suspect it's creeping age that's not letting me get off!

Oh and not enough hard work could be another reason!

Rosie - well done for getting picked....i voted for you because you clearly have the potential to get through the 3.30 barrier *    ....and now I see your weekly training I am even more sure.  If you can run a 3.34 with no real variety in your training I am sure that once Sam gets you on a proper programme you'll have no problem. 

I'm another one like minni with times similar to yours previously, but got big PBs over 10 miles and HM in the last year and broke 3.30 in London - and for me the improvement was all about adding variety into my training and making every session count, cutting out the junk miles!

I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on

*  although the main reason I voted was Dug of course...another dog fan here, although sadly don't have one right now.

Hey Rosie

Really looking forward to working with you over the next few months, and introducing a little variety to your regime!  As the old adage goes... ' if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got...' Hopefully ringing the changes will be the key to achieving that new PB. Your current PBs over other distances certainly suggest it's achievable.

So see you tomorrow!

Cheers, Sam

Rosie you're doing the Meadows Marathon,  ie 16 laps?   I can't quite work out what time the half starts.  I think the students organised it last year too and it was great.  Chip timing etc but a nice party feel.

So, Paris will be your main target for sub 3:30 and things like the Meadows Marathon, which is about a month before I think, will be long slow training runs?   There's been a lot of debate on these threads recently about whether or not to run the full 26.2 miles in training.  It will be interesting to see what professional advice you get on the approach and how its worked into your end goal.

Xmas is cancelled in Spoons's house wrote (see)

Personally I have no problem with doing a marathon in training as long as: 1 - you do it slowly 2 - it's not in the last few weeks when you should be tapering

Here's my 10 cents worth on the matter!  I've never done a full 26 miles as part of training for a marathon, nor included it in anyone's training. I don't feel it is necessary or appropriate for someone of my pace (3.22 PB) or slower. Why? Because the recovery time is so great that it interferes with too much other training. It also has a high risk of injury. For elite runners, who are completing the distance much quicker, it might be appropriate, though...

Minni - Musselburgh 10k is flat but can be windy and has a few little twisty turny bits and some rough grass underfoot towards the end - good race though

Stirling has small hillocks but maybe too far away for you ???

Don't think I'd fancy a full 26.2 in training either. Assuming it's done maybe10-20% slower than MP it just then becomes a very long slow run and - unless training for ultras or other insane things - I don't think there's a need to get used to being on your feet for a great deal longer than you're going to be on race day

oscarr wrote (see)

Sam - what would you suggest as the longest run (miles and time) in a marathon training schedule for a 4:00 hr man and how near to the race to do it?  (Richard from group 2) 

Hi Richard,

With the caveat that it is slightly dependent on the individual (injury vulnerability, recovery speed and how consistent training has been, I'd reckon on capping distance at 20 miles for a 4hr runner. Given that you won't be running at marathon pace the whole time (hopefully some of it though!) this is going to take in the region of 3 hours. You might try to do this, or get near to it, more than once in training however.

In terms of closeness to race, I would do the longest run (or repeat the longest run for last time) 4 weeks out from race day.

Thanks Sam,

I feel that RECOVERY built in to my schedules is key since I have suffered from leaving my best in training and not performing well enough in the marathon itself due to what I perceive to be overtraining.  I have more time on my hands now and want to use it wisely so will take great care when developing my schedule for the next marathon (probably MK or Mar of the North).

I plan to do two or three 18 milers plus two 20 milers in the build up with the last one 4 weeks before as you suggest.  Will probably do most of these as progressive pace runs (slow-MP-fast last few) and will reduce the amount of speed work done on the track during this period to help with the midweek recovery.

At the moment I'm working on core and upper leg strengthening, hills, track intervals and XC races plus 12 mile long runs to improve my core/leg strength which should help in those last few miles of the marathon. 

John Ford 5 wrote (see)

John Ford 5 wrote (see)

Rosie well done for getting that place which doesn't surprise me, your running said a lot but the hospital story said a lot more and will have made most of us chuckle.  Great outfit for a fancy dress run though technically probably far from comfortable.  Wishing you all the best over the next few months of training and interested how they get you off that plateau.  I think I am definitely in the same place but suspect it's creeping age that's not letting me get off!

Oh and not enough hard work could be another reason!

@John Ford. Hey, Good to see other plauteau-ing people here J. I know the feeling about not working hard enough. I do a few miles a week admittedly but it’s rare I feel I’ve had a hard session or made a difference to my running. I think I'm quite lazy in that way. Cruising round just enjoying the view is much more like it. Will be interesting to see how a bit of direction changes things

Ding Dong Minni-ly on High wrote (see)

Rosie you're doing the Meadows Marathon,  ie 16 laps?   I can't quite work out what time the half starts.  I think the students organised it last year too and it was great.  Chip timing etc but a nice party feel.

So, Paris will be your main target for sub 3:30 and things like the Meadows Marathon, which is about a month before I think, will be long slow training runs?   There's been a lot of debate on these threads recently about whether or not to run the full 26.2 miles in training.  It will be interesting to see what professional advice you get on the approach and how its worked into your end goal.

Hey Minni, I’ve done the meadows half for 3 years and as I remember it it’s always started at 12, but each year the students tend to leave you in suspense until near the time as to the official start time! I don't think they'll change it but we'll see.. It has, in my experience, never actually started dead on time either. Usually 5-15mins late. I secretly love the laid back atmosphere though. As to the full. I was in for it but given Sam’s advice will likely downgrade to the half – it was incredibly unlikely I was going to manage to count to 16 while running anyway!  The course is right by my work so it's not like I can't do it another time.

Would be great to say Hi on the day too.

SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

oscarr wrote (see)

Sam - what would you suggest as the longest run (miles and time) in a marathon training schedule for a 4:00 hr man and how near to the race to do it?  (Richard from group 2) 

Hi Richard,

With the caveat that it is slightly dependent on the individual (injury vulnerability, recovery speed and how consistent training has been, I'd reckon on capping distance at 20 miles for a 4hr runner. Given that you won't be running at marathon pace the whole time (hopefully some of it though!) this is going to take in the region of 3 hours. You might try to do this, or get near to it, more than once in training however.

In terms of closeness to race, I would do the longest run (or repeat the longest run for last time) 4 weeks out from race day.

Hi Sam

Thanks for being my mentor! Looking forward to tomorrow.

Thanks for the encouragement about it being achievable. Somehow having run such a similar time [around 3:35] a few times now I think I've been a bit mentally stuck on that in races too. I expect to do it so I do. The last two times I finished at 3:35 I sprinted the last 400m (well, as much as I ever sprint…I’m definitely not a short distance runner!) and could run for the bus afterwards and did 10 miles fine the next morning so was a bit frustrated at myself for not pushing harder. It’s great to hear people thinking I can change it.  

Interesting advice about marathons in training too. It was something I was going to ask about but really glad Minni and Spoons and others have started discussion on it here. I’ve previously done one (or more) 26.2’s – actual races but I was counting them as long runs in the months before a marathon (I tend to see some races as long slow runs, then try to run a bit faster in others which I have selected on largely arbitrary criteria as ‘actual races’ ). But am happy to hold off on that if it’s not the best idea before Paris? I’m totally up for doing stuff differently!

I think I’ve been a bit confused about long runs really, because the last few years I don’t seem to need a day off after a marathon (I’m clearly not trying hard enough on the day??) and can run fine for a train or whatever straight after a race and am always fine on my normal running route the next morning, so have fallen into the habit of using them as training, and not having a day off before or after. So, a few questions really – which may well be answered in the training plan, sorry if I’m pre-empting!:

1.       What would your advice be regarding recovery from long runs? e.g. if I find myself having run 26.2, how much recovery does that require? I had horrible DOMS after my first marathon in 2008 but since then no proper leg pain after any so when my brain says GO the next morning at running time, I do. [I'm rubbish at knowing when to rest!] Is it a case of scheduling in rest regardless of how your legs feel?  

2.       What is the longest distance I should be doing as a long run between now and April?    

Thanks!!