Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

Follow the progress of just back from a run, our sub-3:00 hopeful, as she receives expert advice from mentor Paul Evans

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04/01/2010 at 16:28
Jezza_B wrote (see)
I did the aussie thing pre FLM09 MM and SF - did it the Friday though rather than Saturday.  Absolutely PIGGED out immediately afterwards.  Wonderful scenes 

Did you "pig out" scientifically, ie 12g of high GI food/drink per kg of body weight or did you do what I did and just stuff in a LOAD of food until you thought "that'll do?"
04/01/2010 at 18:52
Matchstick Man wrote (see)
Did you "pig out" scientifically, ie 12g of high GI food/drink per kg of body weight or did you do what I did and just stuff in a LOAD of food until you thought "that'll do?"

It was certainly based on the science - as in I worked out what I 'needed' and went for it.  This is what I got through on the day:

Breakfast (immediately post run) = recovery drink, 4 scotch pancakes with maple syrup, cornflakes with semi skimmed milk, 1 jam do-nut, 2 x croisants with jam
Lunch = prets choc croisant, 5 x mini croisants at a meeting, bagel with salt beef, melted cheeze, gerkin!
Evening = Risotto, banana custard with spong pudding, cereal bar

05/01/2010 at 09:22

I've done the Aussie load a few times without a problem.  It's not a `speed session', it's one 3 min blast which causes no damage.

In the past I've also done a more traditional deplete for 2 days then reload for 2 with similar results.

I felt better after the 3 min blast as I tend to bloat if I eat a lot.  I went and bought the amount of carbs I needed in the form of drinks, malt loaf, jaffa cakes etc.  I also did it on the Friday to give the food time to get through my system as my digestion does not always work as quickly as I would like.

05/01/2010 at 09:36

Scruffmeister - I did 15 miles on the treadmill last week due to the snow and have done so many times before.  I find wearing earphones and listening to music helps to pass the time.  Also, breaking it up into chunks helps - for me it was an easy warm-up, a faster bit in the middle and then an easy cool down.  Although it can be boring it helps to have the different surface to run on for me in the middle of high mileage.

I too have done the Aussie depletion/reload and although it did me no harm and made no difference to my marathon performance, I found it hard to take in the required carbs in such a short space of time.  I'm one who prefers to load over a couple of days just because too many carbs in that short space of time made me feel sick.

05/01/2010 at 13:40
Firstly its great to hear that so many have tried alternative nutritional strategies in preparation to marathon running. Jezza_B - I wish that could be my dietary intake everyday, it sounded amazing! I have had a look through the article and also tried to track down the original journal, which appears to be from 2002. The athletes in the study were completing 10 hours of training a week (which seems about right) but were only taking on board 7g/kg lean body mass of carbs which is by no means a high carbohydrate intake for a marathon runner. After 3 mins of intense exercise the amount of carbs was almost doubled so it was inevitable that the amount stored would increase. I found that from a mechanistic point of view this method works, eg. taking onboard that amount of carbs immediately after intense exercise will increase the store in you body. However, from a practical point of view is it worth it?

I agree with the principles behind it but by following a more traditional method you are likely to have the same outcome without putting your body under additional strain so close to a race. Do the risks out weigh the benefits, in your opinion? As you will know every athlete is an individual, so if it works for you then that's great but not everyone will have success with such an extreme method. The views of an coach/elite athlete would help this debate... My recommendation would be that by all means try it in your training before one of your long runs. I would suggest avoid using such a tactic the day before the big race it self.

05/01/2010 at 14:05
Cheers for the reply Gareth - you mention that 7g/kg lean body mass of carbs is not a high carb intake for a marathon runner. Could you give us a pointer as to what the ratio should be if the aussie method means you ingest 12g/kg? Also, what would be a typical daily diet for the recommended ration please?
05/01/2010 at 21:18
indeed, really good response Gareth and another good question from MM!  As you say, Gareth, it does put some 'strain' on the body but I loved the excuse to eat all that lovely food.  More do-nuts less croisants next time for me!
06/01/2010 at 08:53

So my flight to Manchester airport has been delayed by at least 24 hours! Crazy stuff. So I have an extended holiday!
Regarding the treadmill, I much prefer to run on road, i do find it a bit mind numbing, but when needs must and all that. And actually once I have run a few miles i get into it a bit more. I don't know how good it is for your technique? I Presume the odd session is fine though, I did quite a lot a while back and found I ran more upwards than forwards! I always put the incline on 1 percent. 
I did 10 miles today and put a towel over the monitor so I couldn't look at the time and distance every second! I find this to be better than constantly looking at how much longer you have left!

Gareth: there was a chapter on nutrition in the book, I will have a read of that today. I actually studied sports science and loughborough, but it amazing how much I've forgotton.  I have been told that we should be receiving some lucozade products this week/ next week so I can start experimenting. But I am used to gel and water so I may start with this

Hope everyone is managing to keep the training up despite the weather?   Take care on the ice.
06/01/2010 at 09:39

Hope it's somewhere warm where you get to extend your holiday, JBFAR.

I really don't think the treadmill makes any long term technique changes.  I run on one several times a week as I said on a different post, because it's good to use different surfaces when doing high mileage.  I prefer to run outside, but when doing 80 + miles and not being able to get off road on dark evenings the constant tarmac can be a bit harsh on the legs, the treadmill gives them a break.  Also, didn't Ingrid Kristiansen train on a treadmill due to bad weather?  Oh and quite recently I read that Haile G does too.  What's good for any elite is good for us

06/01/2010 at 09:43
Hmmm, Manchester on Sea.  Interesting choice of holiday destination!.  Safe journey back Christina and hope you're not stuck in the airport for too long
Edited: 06/01/2010 at 09:44
06/01/2010 at 10:20

Looks like it the cross trainner for me today. we have a foot of snow here!!!!

How about everyone else?

06/01/2010 at 14:09

JBFAR - hope you've enjoyed the holiday and that the delays aren't causing you too much stress.

Hilly/JBFAR - check out this link.  Dan Robinson claims to have run his first marathon in 2:38 off treadmill training only - talented bar-steward .

SF et al - I don't buy into the Aussie carb load thing either.  Not for runners at our level, anyway. A couple of days of quality scoffing and good fuelling strategy on the day ought to do the trick.  Last year I attended a wedding the day before FLM - in deepest Wiltshire.  Not ideal preparation, either from a rest (given the long drive) or nutrition point of view.  I was suited and booted with a banana in each pocket and a tupperware of cold pasta in the car! I even persuaded Mrs GE to carry a large bag of raisins around in her handbag!

06/01/2010 at 14:49
TS17, likewise snow here. Not in a hurry to break a leg so hit the turbo instead today. Was supposed to go out on a club road run last night, but the pavements were like an ice rink, as was the track, so we ended up running on the grass in the middle. This is the first spring mara I've trained for & I already hate it!
06/01/2010 at 17:05

GE. Interesting link. I thought it was going to say Dan Robinson did loads of miles on a treadmill not just 45 minutes sessions for a marathon! That's some going. Perhaps he ran loads of miles in football training? In my footballing days there some 5/6 mile runs and hard intervals involved in football training but no where near enough miles to run a marathon in any time let alone 2.38! 

10 slow miles in the snow today wishing I had a treadmill. 

06/01/2010 at 17:25

Thanks for the link, GE.  I wish I could get away with 45 mins sessions to run a half decent marathon like that.

15 miles on the treadmill again here today too as pavements too bad to run on.

06/01/2010 at 19:34

Hi Christina

I hope you get home soon,I am afriad its treadmill or trudging around on the grass !

 Keep me posted


06/01/2010 at 19:49

Even snow here, thats now turned to treacherous ice. I cant see me running again for a few days, cos I have no mill, mind you there's no sign of warmer temperatures for about another week !

I dont do the Aussie carb load thing, reckon its a load of pony myself. And seeing as I rarely do anything faster than a little bit of  MP running, the klast thing I'm going to do 2 days before a big one is run flat out.

06/01/2010 at 20:11

 JBFA - my son returned to Manchester Uni at the weekend and said it is the deepest snow that he has ever seen! - so not good for running when the snow is over your shins!

The weather has certainly been challenging!!  I have been running, but it has been all off road, including an effort session last night on the grass with a good covering of snow. I just keep telling myself that I am going to be so stong and tough When the local Cross Country race was called off this afternoon I did  think about running on a treadmill  but I ended up running 9 miles off road with 8 hill spints to finish off and felt great at the end all warm and glowing

07/01/2010 at 11:20
MM - I am in agreement with the ratio that is suggested for the Aussi method, its more the fact of changing the strategy to such a radical regime just 24 hours before the big day. The Aussi study is stating that you would gain a great storage of carbs by ingesting 7g/km BM, followed by strenuous exercise, then ingesting 12g/kg BM. However, is it likely that you would gain the same success by ingesting 10g/kg BM for 2-3 days prior to the race, without the additional strenuous exercise.Pre-exercise meals can come in many different forms containing different amounts of carbs:

For yourself JBFR a good pre run meal plan would be to consume a carbohydrate rich (80-160g) breakfast 3-4 hours before you exercise. This could be in the form of 2 slices of toast (32g carbs), 1 medium sliced banana (32g), large handful of raisins (70g), small bowl cornflakes (26g) with a LS Body Fuel drink (30g). For more information on carbohydrate content. As a pre-race snack 1 hour before you exercise, again you could have a banana or a LS Energy Bar (30g). It is also important to ensure you are hydrated in the lead up to any form of exercise so make sure you check the colour of your urine first thing in the morning and then drink some additional fluid until your urine is pale/clear.

08/01/2010 at 11:57

Day 3 no running...ahhhhhhh I need my running fix. Have been doing an hour on the cross trainer daily but its not the same.

Come on snow, we have all had enough of you now...go back to the north pole....

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